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Post by Roger on Nov 28, 2014 23:15:58 GMT
Frankly Joan, I'm astonished that you hold your own in a technical discussion in a foreign language. I wonder how many of us would get on doing the same! I take my hat off to you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 23:19:46 GMT
Maybe because he's Bi-lingual ??
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Post by Roger on Nov 28, 2014 23:33:45 GMT
Maybe because he's Bi-lingual ?? More than two Alan... I know you're a bit of a linguist yourself but I can barely manage English. It's one thing to speak another language, and quite another to have the technical vocabulary too. Well, I'm impressed anyway
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 29, 2014 7:15:23 GMT
English is my 4th language if I take into account the order I learn them. Second is Spanish and third is French (first is of course Catalan). I manage to write English relatively well but I can barely speak it because I do not have the practice. I suppose this is because I learned it in a language school and never lived in an English speaking country. With French it is the contrary. I feel comfortable at speaking but I have little clue on how to write it properly. This is because I learned by listening but never went to school. Also French is not that different than Catalan as far as grammatical constructions are concerned. Thankfully, English uses a simple grammatical structure which is about a subset of Spanish with minor differences. The main difficulty is vocabulary and the infinite amount of 'English Colocations' (or 'use of English') that you have to learn one by one.
Posting and reading your posts here also helps me. During my software developer times I joined American English based forums, so this is what I am mostly used to. I noticed that on British English both vocabulary and 'use of English' is quite different, so I sometimes struggle to understand something, but I hope I will improve over time.
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Post by Roger on Nov 29, 2014 9:21:48 GMT
I can't help but think you'd pick up speaking English really quickly from your understanding of the written word. You'll have to pay us a visit and see how you get on. I have no concept of English grammar, only what looks and feels right from experience. I could name a few constructs but I'd fail any test on the subject. Thankfully I get by with what experience has provided. I'm surprised you don't muddle them all up in your head!
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 29, 2014 10:28:23 GMT
Roger, you just gave an example of what is the most difficult part of English. You used “muddle up”. This is just one of the several thousands of phrasal verbs you use everyday. Of course I had to google it, but I don’t count on remember it tomorrow, or maybe in just one hour. The grammar, as per sentence structure, subordinated sentences, use of adjectives, adverbs and so on is very simple. I think only Dutch is that easy (a friend once told me). I believe this is the reason why the English language has such a smooth entry level curve, the entire word is able to use it on a very basic level, however thinks complicate (and I mean by a lot) when you begin getting some level.
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 29, 2014 10:30:28 GMT
Another difficulty is that there is no direct path between written and spoken English. This is unlike Spanish, French and even German.
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Post by Roger on Nov 29, 2014 10:48:35 GMT
I suppose those "phrasal verbs" are what makes it such a rich language even if the structure is simple. I guess we've been invaded so many times that we've acquired a much larger vocabulary than many other countries. It's both a blessing and a curse.
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 29, 2014 11:42:18 GMT
I suppose those "phrasal verbs" are what makes it such a rich language even if the structure is simple. I guess we've been invaded so many times that we've acquired a much larger vocabulary than many other countries. It's both a blessing and a curse. Well, of course. I suppose all existing languages in the world have a similar degree of complexity, only in disparate aspects. Eventually all children speak their mother language by about 3 years old regardless of language, so this means that there is really no difference in complexity. However, adult brains have not such flexibility and as such it is easier to learn languages that are structurally near to the one (or ones) you already know. For an English speaker I suppose Dutch would be manageable. Phasal verbs is just the tip of the English language iceberg. They are regular verbs with a trailing preposition that completely change meaning in ways that are impossible to guess unless you memorize them all one by one (or your Mother spoke to you in English, of course, which would be far easier :-) ) I do not think that the case of English is just a matter of being 'invaded'. Well, I can be thankful that the Romans eventually entered Britain because at least the grammatical structure comes from modern latin (not classic one) just like the latin derived languages. However, to my understanding all the vocabulary is totally genuine. I mean it was there before the Romans came in and is based on languages already spoken there. You have tons of Latin derived words, possibly the most formal ones, but the day to day vocabulary and slang comes from your own. I am not a linguist, I am just guessing this based on what is similar or not among the languages I know, which are Latin based. Joan
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 29, 2014 11:47:46 GMT
I wonder how a heated up (phrasal verbs anyone?) discussion on axle material has turned into (phrasal verb) a discussion on languages. Joan.
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pault
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,497
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Post by pault on Nov 29, 2014 11:51:07 GMT
lucky for me that Beer seems to be a fairly universal word
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2014 11:55:43 GMT
Yes,I also found that when trying to learn German it was easier for me when living and working there ( with the MoD ) than when in a classroom.....Someone once said that America and Britain are two countries separated by a common language !!.......My neighbour is married to a Filipino wife and she was taught English by an American !!......... Please do continue with your postings.........."In my House there are many rooms"..........
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Post by donashton on Nov 29, 2014 18:52:22 GMT
I agree entirely. This is a situation up with which we must not put!
Don.
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Post by andyhigham on Nov 29, 2014 21:10:10 GMT
lucky for me that Beer seems to be a fairly universal word In Czech Republic and Poland beer is Pivo
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Post by rogsteam1959 on Nov 29, 2014 22:11:50 GMT
lucky for me that Beer seems to be a fairly universal word Right, bier spoken as beer in Germany. Cheers
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 30, 2014 8:38:27 GMT
lucky for me that Beer seems to be a fairly universal word In Czech Republic and Poland beer is Pivo Or "cervesa" in Catalan, which does not sound quite the same either. I wonder if "Wine" is a more international word in that respect. How's that in Czech or Polish?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 8:55:27 GMT
A more Internationally experienced word might be}-------- Whine ??
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 30, 2014 9:02:44 GMT
I agree entirely. This is a situation up with which we must not put! Don. It's interesting that Latin derived words are generally used in definitions. See this: "Put up with": tolerate, endure
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Post by Roger on Nov 30, 2014 9:49:05 GMT
I'm keeping my head down, he knows more about English than I do...
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Post by Rob on Nov 30, 2014 12:34:50 GMT
I've found that with pretty much anyone who speaks English as a second language
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