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Post by johnharkness on Nov 26, 2014 21:10:23 GMT
What is the best round bar material for making these for 5" gauge.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 21:22:18 GMT
Hi John Don Young advised silver steel for Doncaster's tender axles, I used the same for bogie and trailing axles, however Don stated a lead free steel for the main axles...i used EN8 following the sound advice from this forum's sages...  cheers Pete |
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 26, 2014 21:41:53 GMT
En8, you'll be turning it where it matters anyway.
One option is to use the hardened inner sleeves for needle roller bearings where the axle boxes sit to save the wear, I've yet to try it on any engines of mine though, it'll be on the Standard 4 or the Duchess, though I'm pushing Dave to do it on his 9F
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pault
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,496
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Post by pault on Nov 26, 2014 21:55:19 GMT
I have used the sleeve approach with success and the professionally case hardened and ground axles with roller bearings again successfully. When running in normal axle boxes I use precision ground EN 1a
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 22:15:36 GMT
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 26, 2014 22:37:53 GMT
I have my front bogie axles already fully machined on AISI 304 stainless steel, they look really great! but I understand this is not common practice. I am using roller bearings on them so in my case the particular material being used Is not specially relevant as long as it is strong enough and the recommended roller bearing tolerances are respected.
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Post by Roger on Nov 27, 2014 10:48:16 GMT
I followed the advice here and used EN8 but I did grind it to get the best possible finish and geometry. I can see why people would want to use Silver Steel because it can be used straight out of the box.
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Post by johnharkness on Nov 27, 2014 16:40:55 GMT
Thanks all for the info.
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pault
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,496
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Post by pault on Nov 27, 2014 20:00:46 GMT
Personally I would not use stainless with roller bearings it is relatively soft initially, but will probably work harden which may or may not work to your advantage.Galling maybe an issue which could result in destruction of the bearing. Overall the unique properties of stainless contribute nothing to an axle, so I would use one of the traditional materials rather than risk SS
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 27, 2014 22:25:22 GMT
Personally I would not use stainless with roller bearings it is relatively soft initially, but will probably work harden which may or may not work to your advantage.Galling maybe an issue which could result in destruction of the bearing. Overall the unique properties of stainless contribute nothing to an axle, so I would use one of the traditional materials rather than risk SS "Soft Initially"?, "Harden"?, I think you are utterly confused. S.S. is possibly the most stable material existing today. I can't believe all this ignorance and absurd negative bias against this material. Have you even taken some time to investigate and teach yourself about it? |
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 27, 2014 22:29:18 GMT
Yes..Stainless that work hardens as you turn it, bloody nightmare stuff, hit it too hard and you kill the tips, don't hit it hard enough and you kill the tips. Been there!
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 27, 2014 22:38:43 GMT
I rest my case. Very difficult to argue with some of you guys because you assume I don't know anything, and just keep repeating the same thing over and over without even taking the time to look at my previous posts. I will post a photo of my Stainless Steel axles some time next week. Sorry this is getting boring. |
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 27, 2014 22:42:55 GMT
I said nothing about assuming you know nothing, but having spent 10 years turning some interesting materials, I think I can also claim to have experience.
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Post by vulcanbomber on Nov 27, 2014 22:44:06 GMT
Personally I would not use stainless with roller bearings it is relatively soft initially, but will probably work harden which may or may not work to your advantage.Galling maybe an issue which could result in destruction of the bearing. Overall the unique properties of stainless contribute nothing to an axle, so I would use one of the traditional materials rather than risk SS . I can't believe all this ignorance and absurd negative bias against this material. Have you even taken some time to investigate and teach yourself about it? And I thing you've spent to much time reading and not enough doing. Certain grades such as 303 machine like butter, 304, 316 and 321 put up a bit more of a fight but are still reasonable to machine 431S29T is alot less reasonable, going onto the likes of 15.5PH and 17.4PH in H1100 condition is quite reasonable again go to the same stuff in H1025 condition and you start to struggle but take that then to H900 condition and its not far off the likes of Nimonic, Hastaloy and Inconel. First time I cut 17.4PH in 900 condition i treated it as per 316 and as soon as the cutting insert touched the billet it exploded.. most stainless steels I dont jump at the opportunity to machine. |
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stan
Seasoned Member
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Post by stan on Nov 27, 2014 22:44:52 GMT
Just a change of subject if you will allow me, I am building a 5" 9F 92202 built at Crew, what colour are the frames painted inside. I have been told that the ones built at Swindon are red as 92220 and 92214 but the Crew ones were black as 92240, I know British locos were all red except for the A4 which were white any body know please.
Stan
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Post by vulcanbomber on Nov 27, 2014 22:58:58 GMT
Just a change of subject if you will allow me, I am building a 5" 9F 92202 built at Crew, what colour are the frames painted inside. I have been told that the ones built at Swindon are red as 92220 and 92214 but the Crew ones were black as 92240, I know British locos were all red except for the A4 which were white any body know please. Stan Hi Stan, 92220 Evening Star is red inside see here: modeleng.proboards.com/thread/8734/5-inch-gauge-9f?page=2 about 1/3rd of the way down and 92212 is all Black see here: modeleng.proboards.com/thread/9160/wonderful-day-out-picture-heavyif you want any other pics, let me know. |
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 28, 2014 7:24:03 GMT
Vulcan, come on. Have I ever said that SS is the easiest material to machine or that it is the best choice for making an axle? No!!. My whole point all the time was that: (1) it *can* be used; (2) I used SS for the reasons I already posted and (3) the already finished axles look fantastic.
Now, please stop assuming things and just take some time to read previous posts from someone you reply to.
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Post by ettingtonliam on Nov 28, 2014 8:07:54 GMT
This getting boring.
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Post by miketaylor on Nov 28, 2014 8:15:33 GMT
Seems to me like a lot of heat and no light.
What I don't understand (Most of you have much much more machining experience than I) is Pault's original post that lit the blue touch paper.
Granted all the problems of machining SS, or not, I don't see the relevance of the problems Paul pointed out to the use of ball bearings. You stick the bearing on the axle, The inner and outer races take the movement against the balls, the stainless bits are simply fixed in relation to the bearing elements.
I can see that Paul's post would merit serious discussion if the proposal had been for needle rollers with no inner race.
Has there been some confusion here?
Mike
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 28, 2014 9:10:18 GMT
Seems to me like a lot of heat and no light. What I don't understand (Most of you have much much more machining experience than I) is Pault's original post that lit the blue touch paper. Granted all the problems of machining SS, or not, I don't see the relevance of the problems Paul pointed out to the use of ball bearings. You stick the bearing on the axle, The inner and outer races take the movement against the balls, the stainless bits are simply fixed in relation to the bearing elements. I can see that Paul's post would merit serious discussion if the proposal had been for needle rollers with no inner race. Has there been some confusion here? Mike Hi Mike, Yes exactly. The fact that roller bearings are used makes the actual material being used for the axle mostly irrelevant, as far as it is strong enough to support any axle loading forces. S.S. is strong enough, so it can be used if you chose to do so for any reason that would appeal you. My understanding of Pault's original post was that S.S. could evolve to something harder over time (thus becoming brittle, or prone to break, and so on), which is utterly not the case !!. S.S. is chemically a completely stable material at room temperature (and above), no oxidising, no change of mechanical properties, or surface properties, or even color. An S.S made part will remain as is and will look the same for the life of our children, grand children and grand grand children. This is FACT. There is hardly another affordable metallic material with such a long term stability. So pretending that it would not be suitable for an axle, or any part of a loco btw, because it will "harden" was utterly shocking to me. As I said (and not only me), this is getting boring already. |
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