don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 26, 2017 9:21:30 GMT
3mm would be close, if you can find something. I am using 3mm copper tube for the cylinder drains, that are also 1 1/4 inch on my engine.
Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 26, 2017 9:06:09 GMT
Hi, I started to build one some years ago but job changes and house moves caused the project to go on hold. So far I've got the chassis virtually completed, to the point where it should run on air and got the boiler parts all ready to start silver soldering.....also have a cab/tank kit. I'm currently overhauling another model, so intend to finish the Jinty next.
I have made a few small alterations to the Martin Evans design.....for instance making mine right hand drive and had my cylinder castings produced from a pattern a friend of mine made for me. I intend to add other small details when the time comes, referring to the real thing.
I can't remember having any real problems so far with getting to this stage, but have been thinking only recently about having another look at the boiler drawings, reference present day requirements etc.
Let me know if you need any further info.
Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 14, 2017 21:35:52 GMT
I haven't posted that many but I got hit. Same goes for me, plus I got the email (referred to by Andy) yesterday. Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 11, 2017 16:33:13 GMT
. . . and I have just discovered that the middle of my 'three rings' is in fact part of the spindle which means has two rings, told you I am learning!!! D Hi, I wasn't sure if that was what you meant when you mentioned the "solid" ring, so yes it's just got two normal piston rings per valve head. It wouldn't be normal to use piston rings in gunmetal bores and it's not obvious from the photos what the cylinder block is made from....could they be gunmetal but lined with cast iron or steel perhaps? Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 8, 2017 20:21:20 GMT
I still haven't received the final steam operated cylinder cock casting from the supplier....disappointed obviously, especially as they can't (?) tell me when I'm likely to get it. I'll just have to wait before I can finish that job! As the frames were upside down for working on the bottom of the cylinders, I naturally needed them right way up to proceed with other work, so I knocked up a "manipulator" that fitted on my existing trolley, using bits and bobs I had lying around. It took no time at all and can't understand why I didn't make it ages ago! I don't intend it to ever take the weight of the boiler etc. as well, but for just the frames, it's ideal....pivoting around the front buffer beam and rear drag beam centres. I took both valve spindles out to clean and inspect the heads, rings, liners, ports and so on and apart from some old rusty crud in the valve chests, all was fine so put it all back and reassembled the combination levers and valve cross heads with new pins. Next job will be to fit the covers to the front of the cylinders and valves and attend to the paintwork around the front of the frames. Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 7, 2017 19:31:11 GMT
Here's a bit more on what I've been doing lately, with photos hopefully. I bought a set of what I expected to be 5" inch gauge scale cab windows and runners, but unfortunately the runners are far too big and would look out of place in the cab. In any case, when I built the model I made and fitted top window runners, because they bridge a joint between the cab sides and the roof, so the bottom runners have to match etc. I machined the grooves with a 1/16 slot drill into some 1/4" brass angle, thinning and shortening the other leg of the angle, until it looked like the top ones I'd made a long time ago. The nice thin glass that came with the set I'd bought was nearly the right size, but again I had to reject them as they weren't just quite tall enough for the vertical spacing between the runners of my cab (about 1mm short). I tried some 1.5mm acrylic perspex that I got off Ebay and found I could cut it easily and accurately on an old Dremel vibrating type scroll saw machine I have. I made a metal template and cut out some wood grain effect sticky backed plastic and stuck it on to the outside of the perspex rectangles, to look like the wooden window frames surrounding the glass. Took 6 attempts to get the first one right, but I must say the results eventually looked pretty good. I also bought a set of side wind deflector frames and pivots that will be fitted to the cab sides between each pair of sliding windows. These are nicely made and unlike the runners mentioned above, are just right to suit the big cab of a 9F, Britannia and probably other classes. The only thing is, they need "glass" that's only around .75mm thick...haven't found anything just yet but on the look out for maybe plastic packaging or similar to make the glass out of. Finally, I also ordered some 1mm perspex to use for the other cab glazing, i.e. the windows in the cab front (spectacle plate) and the window in the draught screen behind the driver's seat. Incidentally the norm was for this draught screen to only be fitted behind the driver on 9Fs....not on the fireman's side but I've seen photos I think of the real 92240 that had this screen both sides! Must have been a modification or something and may have been done on other engines? When the 1mm perspex arrived, it was actually 1.25mm thick, but fortunately this was to advantage as I had made the cab from 18swg (.048") steel, so 1.25mm was almost exactly the same. I had made the frames for these at the time of building, so it was easy to just make the perspex fit the openings in the steel, the brass frames then refitted and trapping it in place. These frames were held together by 16BA countersunk screws....very fiddly when I made them....and even more fiddly now! All the above work was obviously possible because the cab is off the frames....would have been virtually impossible to add this stuff to a "working" engine! Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 6, 2017 21:36:51 GMT
Hi Steve, thanks for that idea.... PM sent.
Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 6, 2017 21:25:30 GMT
Yes I totally agree....it was when I saw the same fitted to a friend's 9F which I only saw for the fist time earlier this year, I knew I had to have them on mine! Such things weren't available as castings 30 odd years ago and were probably considered too fiddly to make at the time....or more likely didn't even think about them at all then!
I also have some sanding gear castings to fit.... in stock from years ago, for which the engine has waited as long as for its window glass!
Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 6, 2017 21:09:55 GMT
Hi, after a bit of a holiday, carried on with the overhaul by making up some oil swab boxes I had bought....they're only dummies but are quite prominent around the front of the engine. One single feed for each piston rod and a double & triple for either side of the frames, immediately behind the front valance....four feeds for the pony truck slides and one for its centre pivot. The full size uses 3/8 copper pipes for these feeds, which to scale would be about .033". The only single strand copper wire I have to hand is from 1mm twin & earth cable and is about .044" so will suffice. Following the Photobucket thing, am trying Imgur and so far have only got this one photo ready, showing the boxes and the little brackets (unpainted yet) for the single feed ones which have to fit on the non-scale LW's design of rear cylinder cover piston rod gland arrangement. Am also progressing with the long awaited cab windows / runners etc. and hope to have more photos soon. Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 23, 2017 18:24:15 GMT
If I recall correctly, even the real 16 feed Silvertown lubricator only had a single 3/32 dia vent hole....drilled through the side of the screw cap. In 5 inch gauge that is equivalent to about 8 thou, but obviously that would easily get blocked!
Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 21, 2017 20:30:11 GMT
I haven't seen Howard for a good few years now, please say hello from me if you see him.
Regarding the gears, I've looked for those that Norman Spink supplied years ago, that I bought but never used, but sorry I haven't found them. Have moved home twice since then and lots of stuff magically disappears each time! Hope you find what you need but if not, let me know just what you need and I'll see if I can source some.
Have you considered the currently available scale reverser gearboxes from at least two suppliers? I have the prototype Doug Hewson one on my 9F and it always worked very well. The handbrake gears were Meccano, but the scoop handle was only a dummy.
Best Regards Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 20, 2017 21:50:48 GMT
Ok nice to "meet" you, do you remember one night whilst we were trying to sleep in the support coach on Upperby depot, you were shunting Sprinters around and came in pretending to be the police on a drugs raid? Always remember that (and how it was impossible to sleep at such a busy, noisy place).
Regards Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 20, 2017 21:10:10 GMT
Hi Geoff, I had a quick look on Ebay and saw various gears / gear sets for sale. I still have my Meccano from 60 years ago and some of that was my Dad's! I might still have the gears I bought for my Les Warnett designed 9F reverser that I never used, as I fitted a Doug Hewson one.....I'll have a look tomorrow.
Can I ask if you have a brother in Carlisle who used to be in the support crew of 46203 PMR during the 1990's?
Regards Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 20, 2017 20:18:59 GMT
Hi Malcolm, the pipes are 1" dia 10g wall thickness copper, as they carry the steam, plus the oil, to the brake cylinders and thus can be pressurised to 250 psi. The lubricators are mounted on a "manifold block" that receives the steam from the brake valve through a 1 1/4" dia pipe. See the white looking pipe in the second photo above, it's been lagged as per the drawings that say "pipes to be lagged where they may come into contact with a man's hands"....always chuckled at that wording!
I couldn't just find a better digital photo of this, I do have earlier prints but would have to scan them to my laptop etc. I can do this if there's anything of interest anyone wants to see....
Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 19, 2017 23:07:28 GMT
Here you go....the first photo is during the fitting out of the cab of 92214. Two of the brake oilers are fitted and can be seen, having been made as per the originals. These were simply a "pot" with a screwed cap, down which oil could be poured straight into its respective brake cylinder pipe. One of our restoration team had been a Passed Fireman at Speke Junction Shed and on his advice and being a very competent machinist, he made three replacement LMS type lubricators that supplied a few drops of oil each time the brake was applied, instead of just a single "shot" during loco preparation on shed. During my involvement with the operation of the loco, we never had any problems at all with braking of this 9F, despite various doom & gloom merchants who claimed the brakes were poor on this class.....not my experience at all! These modified oilers can be seen in the second photo, taken when the loco was nearly complete.
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 19, 2017 21:46:44 GMT
That's correct, they are the lubricator pots for the locomotive's 3 brake cylinders....2 on the engine, 1 on the tender. I'm not certain but those in the picture may actually have something like baked beans cans over them because they don't actually look like that normally. I'll dig out a photo tomorrow of what they should look like. They were filled with steam oil and the block they are mounted on received steam from the graduable steam brake valve (part of the handle of which can just be seen) and directed it down the 3 pipes to the cylinders.....that to the tender via an isolating cock at the base of the pedestal. All BR Standard locos had some form of oilers, but the different classes had them in different places, the 9Fs were probably the only class to have them so prominent. Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 19, 2017 20:07:23 GMT
The 'o' ring arrived and as I suspected, although it was listed as .031" section, it was larger than this and actually measured about .040", so I did have to deepen the recess for it in the actuating valve face, as otherwise it was too proud. A final photo of the valve, plus another photo I found taken a few years ago on 92203 showing the operating lever hidden away, where on the model it will hardly be seen! 92203 like 92220 "Evening Star", has never been to a scrapyard and thus hasn't been "restored" from a Barry Wreck and is (within reason) still in ex BR condition. 92203 was withdrawn from my "home" shed 8H Birkenhead Mollington Street in November 1967 at the end of steam there. As is probably well known, it was bought for preservation at that time.
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 18, 2017 20:24:21 GMT
Here are the pics of the actuating valve linkage and operating handle. I don't have any drawings or measurements of these parts on the real thing at the moment, only recollections and photos I have of 92203, 92214 & 92220 (all Swindon built), so have made things as best I could to fit the available space etc. on the model. The design of the 5" gauge actuating valve and the drilling of the various steam ports means that it operates in reverse to the real one....its innards are somewhat different, but this is no big deal to me....so the lever in the cab is pulled back to close the drains. Note that the actuating valve still has its machining stub attached, in case I need to do any more to the valve face, as I'm still awaiting delivery of a miniature o ring for it. When the model cab was built in the 1980's I didn't contemplate that one day I might fit a working cylinder drains lever, so I never created any holes in either the cab front, or the reverser gearbox supports for the operating rod to pass through. Fortunately because the cab is off the frames, it was reasonably easy to drill through about 1/8" dia. and elongate the holes a bit with a needle file. My original arrangement used the sanding valve on the pedestal to operate the drains! Some of my photos clearly show that I have quite a bit of cleaning up & repainting to do, so the setup at the moment is only temporary. I have more holes to drill in the cab yet, as I would like to fit the lower cabside window runners that I never did years ago (did fit the upper ones), plus finally give the cab the window glass its never had either! Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 17, 2017 20:50:54 GMT
Thanks for that idea....I hadn't thought of that. It's not so easy to tell when the frames are upside down, just what will be visible down there or not when it's on the track. I've been thinking for some time of building a "manipulator" to be able to turn it over easily. Even without the boiler, the frames really are too heavy to lift/turn over single handed, so those pipes could get bent before they ever encounter track! Today I've made and fitted the bracket that supports the actuating valve from the short section of running board in front of the cab and also made the operating handle and it's pivot that fits to the cab side....no pics today but will take some for next time.
Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 16, 2017 20:04:22 GMT
Still no 4th cylinder drain casting, so trial fitted the two LH ones and piped up the actuating steam to them. The pipes are only 1\16" diameter so are a bit delicate, however this is very close to scale for the 3/4" full size. For ease, I decided to soft solder the pipes into the cones and tees as they are so small. When the time comes, the 3mm (full size 1 1/4") discharge pipes will also be soft soldered into place....the nuts / cones on the drain valve bodies are cast-in! Think I'll cut off those extensions to the cylinder backplates, that formed the supports for the former drains operating shaft? I took the two engine brake pistons out of their cylinders for inspection and they need a good clean, plus checking the drip ball valves before fitting with new silicone 'o' rings. The original rings don't look bad after 30 years, but when I looked at the one on the redundant cylinder drains operating piston, it had started to degrade and broke easily when I tried to remove it. My former society track ( Grimsby / Cleethorpes ) is ground level and running there sometimes involved "light engine" movements, so having working steam brakes on the engine & tender came in useful. I am waiting patiently for a new Graduable Steam Brake Valve to be made and look forward to modifying the cab pipework etc. to accommodate this, hopefully in the not too distant future. The one I made was just a dummy and the vacuum brake valve on top of the pedestal was actually my steam brake valve!
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