don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on May 18, 2017 21:34:30 GMT
A quick Google found this which is a good starting point:- www.ba-bolts.co.uk/faq.htmlAs shown in the table, the A/F hex of a 12BA "bolt" is supposed to be .089 inch. Not the .098 that you actually get. Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on May 18, 2017 21:20:03 GMT
Good question....
I've got quite a few different sizes, both imperial and metric, I'll check some tomorrow and post what sizes I find.
Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on May 18, 2017 20:51:59 GMT
Hi all, thanks for the positive comments.... Firstly, when built in the 1980's, the model used a lot of 12BA hex screws to hold running boards, cladding and other bits and pieces together. At the time these were available with an A/F of approx .091 inches +/- a thou or two. I had a box spanner that fitted and I reduced its outer diameter quite a bit, to be able to reach into some awkward corners. Over time, new batches of these screws had a slightly larger hex which was around .098 inches.....probably metric size 2.5mm. Because the box spanner was now thin walled, I managed to be able to get it to fit these newer screws but when I started to dismantle the loco, it would no longer undo the original smaller ones, as in these small sizes, even 6 or 7 thou, make it a sloppy fit and the sloppiness quickly got worse. Now this may be common knowledge I don't know, but I made some new box spanners using hex cap head bolts. 4BA (3/32 inch allen key) for the smaller headed 12BA and a 3.5mm (2.5mm allen key) for the larger headed ones. Loctited the cap heads into a bit of brass hexagon, turned the head of the cap head and some of the brass down a bit according to the wall thickness required....worked a treat. Armed with these, I soon had bits coming off all over! Next, I wasn't sure how I'd secured the boiler handrails to their stanchions (knobs), but I think I just slid them into place and let the paint keep them there. I tried gently tapping at the ends but they wouldn't slide through the knobs without starting to distort things, so had to emery all the paint off the handrails, then they came out easily. On the full size engine, the handrails are in various sections, which cater for expansion and have joining pieces that let things slide a bit. They are secured to the knobs by tapered pins.....I didn't do that on the model as the knobs were secured only to the cladding (one piece around the boiler barrel), not the boiler itself. I didn't have any problems with movement of the handrails due to expansion. Just for interest, between "lighting up" on a cold day and the boiler blowing off at 250psi (ie close to full temperature), the boiler of a real 9F expands by about 7/8 inch. The front of the boiler is anchored by the smokebox, so the firebox moves into the cab on these engines, as the cab structure is mounted on the frames. Allowance must be made for this when fitting the cab floor etc. so pipes and things that pass down the gap don't get squashed! Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on May 17, 2017 21:51:26 GMT
Hi, my name is Don and I’ve recently joined this forum, having awakened a long slumbering interest in Model Engineering….. I built a Les Warnett 5 inch gauge 9F back in the 1980’s and ran it most successfully for several years at various society tracks, living in NE Lincolnshire at the time. Unfortunately sometime in 1996, during a boiler inspection\hydraulic test, we discovered a bit of a leak from one of the superheater flue silver soldered joints in the smokebox…..the test didn’t continue and its certificate wasn’t renewed at that time. I started a stripdown, intending to carry out repairs, taking the opportunity to additionally carry out some work on the pistons & valves, but not long after, a job change and house move meant that the loco became “ Stored out of use”. Involvement in full size loco restoration (92214) became all consuming and now, over 20 years and another house move later, the model still hasn’t been repaired! Hopefully I’ve now got the time and incentive to pick up where I left off and finally get the project under way again….mentioning a brief outline of the above on a thread within this forum. It was suggested by "92220" that maybe I could create a thread of my own, describing the progress of this “overhaul”, as it has now become, due to the long period out of use, and other work being necessary, due to minor damage etc. that has occurred during the house moves and storage in various garages etc. I’m quite happy to have a go at this, as long as people are interested. The loco was built at a time when not much in the way of scale detail parts were available, but I was friends with Doug Hewson and for example, the reversing gearbox in the cab is the first prototype, machined and assembled from a set of castings\gears he had available at the time. Most other fittings are home made and much other detail was obtained from 92220 at York, plus 92214, initially whilst it was at Buxton, but later on when it moved to the Midland Railway Butterley, the location at which it successfully re-steamed again in 2003. I hope during this overhaul, to enhance and update some of the features of the model, taking advantage of some of the parts and castings available today. Les Warnett had designed the model as a double chimney variant and I wanted to pair it with a BR1C type tender, not the BR1G as per Les's design. I spent my childhood near Birkenhead and it is well known that at one time in the 1960’s, the 8H Mollington Street depot there was home to about 55 members of the class! My own 9F had to be modelled on one of these and of the locos allocated there, very few had double chimneys. 92165, 92166 & 92167 were so fitted, also having been originally built with mechanical stokers, but these had long been removed and the tenders reverted back to the BR1C type. As far as I recall, these 3 were the only double chimneyed BR1C 9Fs at Birkenhead, the others having other types of tender. Towards the end of steam by June 1968, 92167 was the last 9F in service…..so that was the chosen number for my model! Updates might be a bit sporadic, but I’ve made a start and I’m working towards getting the boiler ready to lift off, so the smokebox can be removed to allow inspection of the area of the leak, to see what can be done. Amongst other things, I’ve got to work out how I put it all together nearly 30 years ago.....I no longer have the drawings either, having lent them to someone years ago but can't remember who. I’ll be taking photos as I go and will post a few. This one has already appeared but seems appropriate for this first post. Hope you find this of interest…. Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on May 13, 2017 16:13:14 GMT
The first thing I thought was that it reminded me of Barry scrapyard! It really does look worthy of some restoration. Look forward to seeing progress in due course. Not likely, Rex, it's in far too good a condition for a Barry loco. Although Dai Woodham did the preservation world a great service, most of the really valuable bits were stripped off a good while before enthusiasts had the chance to purchase the remains. Mind you, without him there probably wouldn't be a preservation movement of any note due to lack of material, so I'm not having a dig at him. Regards, Steve Don't wish to hijack this thread, but one little anecdote for you.....the loco definitely arrived at Barry in 1965 just about complete, as there is photographic evidence. Once under restoration after 15 years in the scrapyard, we found that the ONLY complete piece of external copper pipe still on the engine, was the 1/4 inch grease pipe, about 2 feet long, from its grease nipple, to the left hand weighshaft bearing. ALL other copper pipes, apart from the main steam pipe in the boiler and virtually all the non ferrous had gone. I hate to think what it would take to remake all that lot if starting today! I've just got back from Doncaster today, where I met Adam, so I'm ordering some bits from him and will be making a start soon I hope. Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on May 12, 2017 20:00:34 GMT
I kept a diary of hours spent on mine and remember sometimes putting in 16 hour days, it was hard tearing myself away to go to work sometimes! Overall I spent about 3500 hours on mine, for which of course LW had incorporated a lot of "simplification" in its frames construction by using castings etc. But it worked a treat and I had great fun running it at various tracks round the country.....then I started modelling at 12 inches to the foot and that was even more time consuming, so true model engineering had to take a back seat eventually! Cheers Don ps Hi Adrian, good to hear from you. Hi Don. In Adam's 'fittings' thread, you say you are renovating your 9F. How about starting a thread on how you are going about it? We can all learn from how others do their jobs. It could be useful as well as interesting. Bob Hi Bob, thanks for the suggestion....I may well do that once I properly get going. At the moment I'm just trying to gather together some new parts and materials, plus re-familiarising myself with where I got to before the loco was "Stored out of use"! I took it outside today and brushed some of the dust off the poor thing....its partly dismantled ready for a boiler lift and looks a sorry sight. The pictures I took reminded me of Barry Scrapyard! Regards Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on May 12, 2017 17:22:27 GMT
Hi Adam, yes I will be at Doncaster tomorrow....I'll look out for you. Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on May 12, 2017 13:07:51 GMT
Yes that's the one, but I'd be quite happy with a Mk4. I've been trying unsuccessfully to acquire some decent water gauges, to replace the rather bulky ones I've got on my model....have you any plans to produce these? I'll make a list of other things I would definitely like and get back to you soon.
Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on May 12, 2017 7:40:08 GMT
Hello again, thanks for that, I was given details of your website recently by a fellow modeller and left a question regarding whether you were going to produce a grease block with just a single nipple, as fitted to the 9F (and maybe other classes), one each side for the engine's rear brake shaft bearings? Just for info, elsewhere on the engine (expansion link & weighshaft bearings, firebox support bearing pads, pony truck horn guides come to mind) had grease nipples fitted to little bits of plate, conveniently welded to something nearby. These all had visible grease pipes....I'll have to look out some photos. Grease pipes generally were in 1/4 inch copper, which would obviously be a bit delicate in the scale size! I'm definitely interested in one of your graduable steam brake valves for my model and also asked the question of whether you were going to model the Mk6 type, as certainly fitted to 92203 & 92220, with the vacuum diaphragm unit, not the Mk4 piston type (not sure if the whole class was like this). These 2 never went to a scrapyard and are largely "as built", whereas during restoration, 92214 received a Mk4 type, as that's all we could obtain at the time. I believe the Mk4b was the same valve as the Mk4, with just the vacuum connections orientated differently to better clear other nearby items. Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on May 11, 2017 23:12:35 GMT
Hi Adam, may I add my congratulations for the fantastic work you are doing. I have recently decided to restore my own Les Warnett 9F to working order after over 20 years of storage due to house moves and other changes of circumstance etc! You have given me many ideas for enhancing the scale details and appearance of the loco. I have just spent the whole evening reading this thread from the start and referring back to some posts from about 18 months ago, offer some "trivia" regarding the mechanical lubricators of the 9Fs, as far as I understand..... I was closely involved with the restoration to working order of 92214 between 1986 & 2003 and then with its operation on various preserved lines until its sale in 2010. The "axlebox" lubricator was a Silvertown Mk3 16 feed model, with 2 outlets blanked off and 14 pumps fitted, 2 of which were split feed units, giving 4 deliveries to the valve cross head guides. These 2 twin outlet pumps had an additional cast fitting on their outlets to "split" the feed, so each crosshead guide received half the delivery of its respective pump. Standard pumps supplied the 2 upper slide bars and of course the 10 main axleboxes. On 92214, the cylinder lubricator used all 12 pumps but the 4 for the cylinder barrels were of increased capacity (about 60%) with no atomisation....a modification referred to on a Western Region drawing from 1961 as "Solid Feed". This meant only 2 atomisers were fitted each side, not 4 as originally built.....these were for the valve heads. Finally on another note, the SSJ ejector on 92214 came from South Africa, exactly as you surmised and had the screwed lower fitting, not the triangular flange! Although it was fitted with the appropriate pedestal extension and cab equipment for Automatic Train Control, being built for the Western Region, we never got round to making the ejector isolating element, seen in some of the recent photos. I understand that a previous owner removed all the ATC gear and presumably cut the extension off. Hope the info is of some use and if you ever need photos of, or assistance with any part of a 9F, I'll do my best to help. Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on May 9, 2017 19:13:37 GMT
I kept a diary of hours spent on mine and remember sometimes putting in 16 hour days, it was hard tearing myself away to go to work sometimes! Overall I spent about 3500 hours on mine, for which of course LW had incorporated a lot of "simplification" in its frames construction by using castings etc. But it worked a treat and I had great fun running it at various tracks round the country.....then I started modelling at 12 inches to the foot and that was even more time consuming, so true model engineering had to take a back seat eventually! Cheers Don
ps Hi Adrian, good to hear from you.
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on May 8, 2017 17:09:42 GMT
Hello all, my name is Don and I have only just found this forum and this thread yesterday, so this is post No1 ! I am so impressed with the attention to detail and the desire to build a model so close to the real thing, it's remarkable. I built a 9F to Les Warnett's drawings and articles in EIM, back in the mid 1980's, however I "overtook" the articles and started gathering all the required info and details from 92220 at York, plus 92214 at Buxton (as it was then) to be able to complete the model with what I thought at the time was a reasonable amount of scale detail.....but nothing to compare with this current build! I became "involved" with 92214 at Buxton and went on to become the lead engineer of the group, moving everything to the Midland Railway Butterley, where it underwent a further 13 years of restoration, before first runs in July 2003. It's wonderful to read and see the photos of the progress and how obstacles are overcome.....brings back great memories of my 20 years or so involvement with the real thing. My own model hasn't run now for the same sort of 20 years but it's recently come out of storage to undergo its own restoration to working order. Although I won't be able to do too much about the basic "rolling chassis", I hope to enhance some of the details wherever I can. I used to be in a society in Grimsby / Cleethorpes and my 9F is portrayed as 92167.....(originally built with mechanical stoker) later allocated to Birkenhead in the mid 1960's, near to where I spent my youth, fitted of course with double chimney, paired towards the end with a BR1C tender and reputed to have been the last 9F in service in 1968. Many thanks and keep up the good work! Don
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