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Post by Cro on Mar 2, 2021 22:33:30 GMT
Dan,
On Grandads Brit he's done it that same and I tend to find during cleaning after a run I just whip the pony truck off to get the better access as you say and I find there is space to get a poker/rake all around the ashpan to pull it all out including on the sides. I tend to have to work from the top to move it all down and from the bottom to get it all out but usually its clean enough before popping the pony back on. It is difficult to get a hoover into though without a small adapter.
Glad to see it's progressing, we missed our annual catch up at Ally Pally so hope to have one later in the year all being well!
Adam
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Post by dhamblin on Mar 3, 2021 20:42:50 GMT
Thanks Adam, that gives me something to work with. I might omit the side shelf doors in that instance and concentrate on the centre door and removable grate. Should make it easier to get the ash vacuum cleaner in there even with a modest adapter.
I was looking forward to Ally Pally, always good to catch up and see the latest developments from your workshop, and seeing the planned Beechurst display. Hopefully 2022 will be different, but maybe opportunities if club open days are back this Autumn.
Regards,
Dan
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,907
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Post by JonL on Mar 3, 2021 21:12:18 GMT
I was looking forward to Ally Pally... I'm taking no event for granted any more! I'm going to everything after this!
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nonort
Part of the e-furniture
If all the worlds a Stage someone's nicked the Horses
Posts: 277
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Post by nonort on Mar 4, 2021 8:54:53 GMT
Please make sure that any flue brush you may use has a stop on it the combustion chamber cross tubes are cunningly aligned with the smoke flues. I have seen a grown man cry when the flue brush was stuffed into one of the combustion chamber cross tubes by a willing helper? You will find that the ash can be cleaned ok, A couple of 1/2"pipe fittings and an straight tube to reach into the combustion chamber. Anything that went through the fire hole door will come back out the same way? One more word of wisdom don't drop the drop grate until you have cleaned the large ash from the grate. Hope this helps.
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Post by dhamblin on Mar 4, 2021 15:37:40 GMT
Thanks nonort, all good advice and gratefully received. My experience to date has been on a 5" 'Netta' design by LBSC, which is a narrow firebox design. The ashpan can become quite clogged at the end of a days running and the grate release mechanism usual jams up causing much frustration as each member takes a go at trying to free it! That is with cleaning out the ashpan as much as possible.
What it has shown me though is the ease at which the grate can be properly cleaned off the loco. With the wide firebox and ashpan design on 'Britannia' it seems to provide more scope for simplifying the mechanism and improving on the original LBSC design. I like the idea of gong in through the firehole though to get at the combustion chamber.
Regards,
Dan
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nonort
Part of the e-furniture
If all the worlds a Stage someone's nicked the Horses
Posts: 277
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Post by nonort on Mar 9, 2021 20:07:52 GMT
As a complete after thought is possible to take the grate out through the side of the ashpan. A bit like the tray in the bottom of a budgie cage. I realise it would have to drop down from the foundation ring before moving sideways. Keep stirring the grey matter and something will turn up. All the best.
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Post by springcrocus on Mar 9, 2021 22:33:05 GMT
As a complete after thought is possible to take the grate out through the side of the ashpan. A bit like the tray in the bottom of a budgie cage. I realise it would have to drop down from the foundation ring before moving sideways. Keep stirring the grey matter and something will turn up. All the best. Something a bit like THIS then? Regards, Steve
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Post by osiris09 on Mar 10, 2021 0:24:54 GMT
Im interested to see what you come up with as i have the same issues on my Pamela which probably has a very similar design. Currently im wondering about having the whole center ashpan with grate pivot down from between the frames after removing the rear pony truck.
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Post by dhamblin on Mar 10, 2021 18:27:48 GMT
nonort - the thought had crossed my mind, possibly allowing the supports to drop out and then extract each piece via the shelf.
Steve - thanks for the link, I struggled to find the post where you revealed the results of the separate thread about different design options. That is really rather neat and if I was starting from scratch I think worth attempting to replicate. The L brackets attached to the lower outer back corners of the firebox that secure it to the ashpan while allowing for expansion might be the undoing of that on the 3 1/2" version though.
osiris - that one crossed my mind too, but not on a pivot but rather secured by two pins. I noticed that LBSC specifies screws at each end of the ashpan to secure it between the frames, but Grandad only did the rear pair. You run into the same problem though that the ashpan supports the firebox. Having said that looking at some of my photos it appears the firebox throatplate section of the foundation ring sits on a shelf where the main frames connect onto the rear section, so perhaps not so critical as it seems.
I've got most of the steel now for this, but am trying to sort out blasting cabinet and compressor so the boiler cladding can be cleaned, primed and fitted where required for the 1.5x hydraulic test. Really don't want to keep undoing the 10BA screws that secure the top feeds to the barrel, so want to fit the cladding once.
New O-rings were delivered yesterday for the everlasting blowdown valve so when I get back from Neasden Depot tomorrow that will be my evening job to test fit.
Regards,
Dan
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,907
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Post by JonL on Mar 10, 2021 19:08:40 GMT
I hope you come up with a neat solution before I start mine, because I suspect I'll be copying it!
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Post by dhamblin on Mar 10, 2021 20:06:54 GMT
No pressure then! Dan
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Post by tdaharvey on Apr 7, 2021 18:40:27 GMT
I am interested in the discussion about the Brit ashpan design. I have a part built 3.5 LBSC Britannia. The grate / ashpan design that has been started is different from the Curly design using folded sheet ashpan. My one has an open steel frame made from 3/8 steel right angle creating the three sections to hold the grates. The front of the frame is mounted to the rear stay and at the rear two pairs of vertical support links connect to the cradle frame maintaining the correct height. The frame provides the mounting for the boiler foundation ring. There are no ash pans so I now have to complete the design or revert to Curly's or copy you chaps.
I have not seen this arrangement elsewhere but think It may be intended to provide for removable ash pans. Have you heard of this arrangement?
Regards Trevor
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Post by dhamblin on Apr 8, 2021 19:14:08 GMT
Hi Trevor, from that description it seems like a support frame to hang the ashpan off of. On the full size the ashpan is attached to the foundation ring before the boiler is lifted onto the frames, perhaps this was an attempt to replicate that but with additional strength. www.fraserker.com/britannia/09mar10/IMG_3220.JPGCan you share any photos so we can have a proper look? Regards, Dan
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Post by tdaharvey on Apr 9, 2021 21:39:08 GMT
Hi Dan and thanks for responding. I think you could be correct because the engineering that has been done by the previous owner has been to a high standard and to a higher level of scale than would be normally expected of an LBSC model. I will get some some photos of the grate design to you and share anything else that may be of interest. I am sure that I can learn from your experience of restoring your grandads engine. Regards Trevor
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Post by tdaharvey on Apr 11, 2021 16:13:07 GMT
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,907
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Post by JonL on Apr 11, 2021 19:11:20 GMT
I'm really considering making my trailing truck rapidly removable. It's going to get such a lot of crud on it when the fire drops.
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Post by Jim on Apr 11, 2021 21:06:25 GMT
I'm really considering making my trailing truck rapidly removable. It's going to get such a lot of crud on it when the fire drops. That's the approach I took with 'Boadicea' as it also gave me easy access to the ash pan if the need arose.
Jim
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Post by dhamblin on Apr 11, 2021 21:39:48 GMT
Hi Trevor, now that is intriguing. It does look like an attempt to provide a structure for the more complex design on the full size loco.
I'm wondering if the original intention was to try and fit a form of rocking grate to match the full size too? The additional frame stiffeners and fabricated trailing truck suggest a greater attention to detail than LBSC's design.
Going for three sections should make it a lot easier to clear out after a run, but think carefully about getting the grate out with those two main bars.
Regards,
Dan
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Post by tdaharvey on Apr 12, 2021 11:48:41 GMT
Dan Thanks for your comments. I will take a look at the full size engine grate design to see if I could scale it down however I think it may be too complicated and not provide much functional benefit. I will certainly plan to have removable fire bars either by having ashpans that can drop completely or with a door/s that allow the fire bars to be removed. The loco actually came with a set of fire bars to the Curly design so there may have been a change in direction taken. I'm considering using stainless steel for the fire bars and the ashpan/s with at least one damper in the latter but am not sure of the pros and cons. I welcome any thoughts that you may have. Regards Trevor
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Post by simplyloco on Apr 12, 2021 12:11:47 GMT
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