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Post by delaplume on Jan 14, 2021 13:33:16 GMT
Hello everyone, and a belated "Sorry" to Ross for not having replied to your query some 6 months ago.......A lot has been happening re the virus etc and I just haven't felt like doing much with the Bear lately.......... However,... if you look at the thread "What I've done to-day" you'll see just why I've opened this up again...Yes, a complete and running Great Bear tender has come my way, so--------- let's get stuck in once more.. Forgot to include these just now}---------
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Post by delaplume on Jan 17, 2021 23:45:51 GMT
If you look closely the water scoop dome is missing.........This was quite unique on the GWR as the scoop is lowered between the two bogies.....This meant that the dome has to be approx half way along the coal space rather than at the rear end, its' more traditional position........... Fortunately I had a spare casting under the bench which fitted straight on..!!! Incidentally that "Twin Cities" badge is incorrect if the tender is to go behind The Bear.....According to records that badge was used from 1928 onwards....Prior to that the old style crest was used.... No.111 was re-built in 1924 as a Castle ... 1928 was also the year when Swindon changed from the earlier dark green -- as seen here ---to the lighter green....The difference is quite noticeable when the two are side-by-side...
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,438
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Post by dscott on Jan 19, 2021 6:32:41 GMT
Upon looking through some 2014 Photos of a wonderful day... And yes it rained hard for 1/2 an hour hence hiding in the WORKSHOP!!!! With a Bear. Thought I would share. Difficult to get a better shot than this. Other shots of the day in the SMILES SECTION. David and Lily.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 10:10:49 GMT
Is that correct, the handrail going around what looks like the ejector pipe? If so it must have been a nightmare to work on. Looks bigger than 5".. 7 1/4?
Pete
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Post by delaplume on Jan 19, 2021 11:12:01 GMT
Is that correct, the handrail going around what looks like the ejector pipe? If so it must have been a nightmare to work on. Looks bigger than 5".. 7 1/4? Pete Hi Peter, That's at the late Ted Martin's place at Thame, Oxon...... yes, it's 7 1/4" and yes, that's an ejector exhaust pipe underneath the handrail...........BUT ( there's always one of those--eh ?? )..that may not be ( How can I put this delicately ??) representative of an actual event.......Here's my reasoning}--- A general overview of the loco shows }---- Brass chimney cap ( it never had a Copper one though a Cast Iron one was fitted at some time ).....No front steps ( Removed after it's first visit to Paddington where the one side tore into the platform brickwork !! ).....Large, oval plaque on the centre driver splasher ( removed quite early on )......No top feed on the safety valve ( Clacks were on the backhead ).......The cab roof is the earlier, long version ( it was subsequently shortened after a Fireman got the handle of his Pricker jammed-in between the end of the roof and the firehole )....I even have photos from a private, unreleased source showing it had at least one wheel-set change in it's life... Alas it's difficult to get actual dates for all those events --- otherwise we could construct a "Time-line" and thus reference any event relative to others......The start would be easy enough ie}--- Released into traffic Feb, 1908.............................................and the first finish..Re-built into a Castle ( No.111 Viscount Churchill ).. in January, 1924...it's the events in the middle that's hard to pin down accurately............If anyone can get any dates to match events then please do put them on here.... Meanwhile here are a couple of photos showing different versions along the way.........PS}}- I've not even touched on the various liveries it carried !!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 13:57:21 GMT
Those are great pictures Alan, thanks for giving some detail on the prototype, I enjoy learning about changes in service no matter what the class or railway company involved. Naturally all my research is on 4472...I 'm sure that I'll discover more about my own choice for years to come. Hopefully, nothing to different to what I'm building.. Pete
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Post by delaplume on Jan 19, 2021 20:17:57 GMT
With that power hacksaw finally back under the bench the Bear's tender has been moved from the outside reception siding and into the workshop--- at last !! I originally built the bench as a loading ramp for my motorcycles, but with the acquisition of a purpose-made steel channel one I re-built it as a one-off bench and dedicated it to the Bear project......... However, as you can see there is a cuckoo in the nest in the form of a Simplex up on it's buffers awaiting re-fitting of a renovated wheel set.....Hence the tender alongside the boiler for the moment......The bulk of semi and finished items are on the shelves underneath whilst the drawings and detailed notes etc are upstairs in my Bedroom....
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Post by delaplume on Jan 20, 2021 15:19:48 GMT
Wednesday, 20th Jan}-------- had the choice between re-fitting the Boxford's single-phase motor OR.................making a start on an visual check of the Bear's tender. No prizes for which won !! To-day I've turned it on it's side and intended to remove both bogies........ However, the leading bogie is the only one of the pair to have a working handbrake linkage...and the complex mechanism for this covers the pivot shaft securing nut.....so I've only removed the rear bogie for the moment.... The tender has clearly had some use during its' time eg}--- Rusty wheel treads, coal dust in various corners etc. and must have been standing for some time as well eg}-- dry pivot pins, seized water valve....The two dummy buffers are missing.........the big Brass builders plate on the rear of the tender is missing ( No.1755 Feb. 1908 ) On the plus side}--- it has a double-acting hand pump which has a neatly made screw connector to join onto the loco........It's my intention to replicate full-size practice as much as possible so we'll have 2 live steam injectors and the hand pump and no by-pass !!......the paint is the correct darker shade and, apart from a couple of small scratches, is in good order...I had already made up 4 wheel sets using some very accurate-looking wheel castings so these will eventually replace the existing ones which are very basic....I made mine with a cross drilling within the axlebox covering so that I cam oil-up from the axle centre... The correct company badge transfer arrived from Fox to-day and confirmed what I had suspected--- although the gold colour is OK the words "Great" and "Western" are too close together....It looks like the transfers have been applied direct from the backing paper....Have a look at these two photos to see what I mean}---------- Seewhat I mean ??.........They aren't central either........I'll leave it as is for the moment, it can always go behind my Mogul with that "Twin cities" badge on.....
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Post by delaplume on Jan 20, 2021 18:18:18 GMT
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lesstoneuk
Part of the e-furniture
Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
Posts: 373
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Post by lesstoneuk on Jan 21, 2021 5:34:26 GMT
This really isn't on topic but in a bit it is.... I have a soft spot for Hawksworth's proposed Mattingly designed pacific. Its amazing to see the difference in only a few decades in how design, materials and expectations had advanced. Had it been built it would have been the most advanced steam locomotive in the British Isles. Even more interesting is the fact that a certain young man was involved in the design and drawing of The Great Bear.....his name?..... Frederick Hawksworth. Small world isn't it
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Jan 22, 2021 0:44:33 GMT
This really isn't on topic but in a bit it is.... I have a soft spot for Hawksworth's proposed Mattingly designed pacific. Its amazing to see the difference in only a few decades in how design, materials and expectations had advanced. Had it been built it would have been the most advanced steam locomotive in the British Isles. Even more interesting is the fact that a certain young man was involved in the design and drawing of The Great Bear.....his name?..... Frederick Hawksworth. Small world isn't it That could light the blue touch paper! Hawksworth denied the Pacific project to his dying day, though somebody produced a drawing which has been published. One explanation (not the only one) for Hawksworth’s disowning the Pacific is that it was an early draft which did not satisfy him, and Higher Authority pulled the plug before it could be improved. Why so? Technically, the drawing I’ve seen (in OS Nock’s Stars Castles and Kings Vol 2) was no advance on the Bear, in fact the cylinders and motion were the Bear (or a King, to be more exact). Hawksworth would have known very well why Stanier abandoned the Bear/Star/Castle/King layout for the Coronations after using it in the Princess Royals, and if this ‘Artist’s Impression' was based on a genuine ‘leak’ (as opposed to a fiction) it would not have been an improvement. I’m afraid that the ‘most advanced’ tag probably belongs to the last two Coronations. (EDIT or the rebuilt Bulleids.) I admit that freely as a Swindon devotee! I think Hawksworth would have been capable of a much more modern design if he had been allowed to devote more time to it, but the GWR/WR had no need of a super-pacific and 30 improved Kings satisfied its high-power needs till the end of steam. Feel free to disagree! Gary
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lesstoneuk
Part of the e-furniture
Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
Posts: 373
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Post by lesstoneuk on Jan 22, 2021 5:08:49 GMT
It's well known that Hawksworth was not a happy bunny when the numbering sequence for the Counties was leaked as 99xx class, so much so that he changed it to the 10xx class. It's quite feasable, nay, most likely, he had a wobbly on the leak of the Pacific. I agree with your findings on them not being a great improvement on a well kept and run King. Looking at the drawing, they looked very much like an LMS Princess.... Which also may have influenced him. They would have been the most powerful Pacific in the UK with 46925lb TE. Outside valve gear, 280lb BP, 6'3" driving wheels, ability to burn crap coal.
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Post by delaplume on Jan 24, 2021 3:38:43 GMT
Hi Gary---Hi Les}--- In a way I feel sorry for Hawksworth.....had Collet retired at a more timely age (say 65 instead of 70 in 1941) then maybe he might have been inclined or indeed allowed to continue in the "Traditional" way of a CME....BUT the fates were always going to be against whoever took over the reigns at Swindon at that time........given the immediate War needs, followed by a change in the Political climate and then Nationalisation, Diesels---Electric........ Alas you can't get much done in just 7 years, only to have your job title made redundant.....but he didn't do too badly}--- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_HawksworthI'm of the opinion that The Great Bear was initially a Churchward research vehicle in much the same way as the two French locos he bought into Swindon, the BR Standard 8P 4-6-2 The Duke of Gloucester, the Blue Deltic ( DP1 ), Kestrel etc...being one-off research / demonstrator vehicles........At the time ( Summer 1906 ) all fast passenger needs were being handled --- with ease -- by Churchward's Star class.....Lode Star being the only survivor of that type... Here's another photo, this time showing the front steps as fitted----and notice also the brakes on the bogie, soon to be taken off...
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Jan 24, 2021 13:47:27 GMT
Hi Gary---Hi Les}--- In a way I feel sorry for Hawksworth.....had Collet retired at a more timely age (say 65 instead of 70 in 1941) then maybe he might have been inclined or indeed allowed to continue in the "Traditional" way of a CME....BUT the fates were always going to be against whoever took over the reigns at Swindon at that time........given the immediate War needs, followed by a change in the Political climate and then Nationalisation, Diesels---Electric........ Alas you can't get much done in just 7 years, only to have your job title made redundant.....but he didn't do too badly}--- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_HawksworthI'm of the opinion that The Great Bear was initially a Churchward research vehicle in much the same way as the two French locos he bought into Swindon, the BR Standard 8P 4-6-2 The Duke of Gloucester, the Blue Deltic ( DP1 ), Kestrel etc...being one-off research / demonstrator vehicles........At the time ( Summer 1906 ) all fast passenger needs were being handled --- with ease -- by Churchward's Star class.....Lode Star being the only survivor of that type... Here's another photo, this time showing the front steps as fitted----and notice also the brakes on the bogie, soon to be taken off... Entirely agree. A research vehicle for sure; it also became a Prestige vehicle, which explains its continued existence long after Churchward had lost interest in developing it further. For better or worse! Gary
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Post by delaplume on Jan 24, 2021 23:22:56 GMT
Finish dismantling the rear Bear tender bogie and give it a good visual check----The springs are coil ( instead of multi-leaf ) and some have been getting partially trapped by the compensating beams.......Fortunately its' just a matter of slight re-bending to clearance....I'll be making a set of new axleboxes as these have had small roller bearings fitted which clearly aren't up to the job.......Cast iron as per normal spec...
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,438
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Post by dscott on Jan 26, 2021 1:56:06 GMT
I love your makeshift bench above your tender. I had projects stacked upon other projects. Now I am working towards a space for each on various benches. So go down and get inspired by something and head for her respected bench.
Looking Great Alan.
David and Lily.
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Post by delaplume on Jan 26, 2021 2:40:44 GMT
Hello you two,
Seems like many years have passed since we called at Tilehurst.......or saw you at the track.........yes, the toweling gives a soft footprint as it were and also keeps all the removed items together......The plan is not to remove anything else but to give this bogie a good clean in the paraffin bath and re-build using the 4 wheelsets I'd made up previously.....These have the "oil-through-the-axle" system which the loco has as well so oiling-up becomes just a small shot into each axle end along both sides......and now that I have here a dedicated Hydraulic lifting capability I do all prep work the night before and then just load up on the Sunday morning.....arrive at the track and light-up straight away....
More later---
Alan
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Post by delaplume on Jan 26, 2021 19:04:20 GMT
Predictably the second wheelset decided not to play "Ball" and so the 10-ton bench press was called into action.....With the first set the VERY large bench vice was able to cope.........
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,438
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Post by dscott on Jan 28, 2021 1:24:13 GMT
Inevitable that we start with trying the smaller more delicate tools... Then find we have to resort to buying bigger and better items to get stuff moved or removed. The space for ours is currently taken up with insulation packs. This was to go on the inside of the kitchen walls! But the extensive non use of the cavity stuff where the cheat would not be noticed means dragging the whole place up to 100 mm of the hard stuff. This being done once we have something in Steam... Other than Milling Machine Motors!!!
David and Lily.
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Post by delaplume on Feb 5, 2021 11:56:04 GMT
Not much by the way of progress it seems--------one step for'ds and then two to the side at the moment.........What should have been a reasonably straight forward job of changing the wheel sets has morphed into a semi re-design of the basic set-up..... So, as mentioned earlier the boxes have been fitted with one very thin roller bearing each..These were located in an off-centre position in relation to the compensating beams....result = uneven thrust on the beams and restricted travel.........Also, it appears that in order to restrict side movement both of the lower part of the boxes were extended down and then bent over at 45 degrees towards each other--- thus captivating the lower main beam of the bogie chassis.... most peculiar !! The intention is to adjust the external shape of the boxes to as near "Normal" as possible then fit plain journal, Bronze bearings by way of pressing a top-hat bush into the steel box and then drill / ream for the diameter of the new wheel-sets......The restoration of the Boxford lathe has been running in parallel with this ( and one other contract job---- more on that later ).. and we should be getting some machining done very soon now... Meanwhile here are the stages so far on the box mods.........Reading from Left to Right they are}-------- 1) Box, as removed with bearing being extracted but not cleaned etc.. 2) Box cleaned and ready for modifying... 3) Lower extentions removed ( Hacksaw and mini-mill ) 4) Upper extentions reduced...A small lip has been retained to locate the compensating beam feet.. I had considered going for the proper split-type box but felt that was a lot of effort for no real reason.......This is intended to be a working loco first and foremost so I'm staying with simple, basic designs wherever I can..... Later on it was found that the small lip needed to be removed in order for the compensating beam inner foot ( there are 2 parallel beams riveted together ) to rest on the to of the box........remember, I did say this was peculiar !!
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