dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,440
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Post by dscott on Oct 16, 2020 1:54:27 GMT
Hi Alan, I don't know how many times you have mentioned the Steam Railway magazine spoof, but it has been quite a lot. And perhaps we don't need to hear it all again. From what I understand, and is more pertinent to Adam's work is that City of Truro since whenever - probably since when it went to York Museum in the 1930's has a peculiar hybrid tender that doesn't match any of the GWR tender diagrams. Cheers, Julian I was there the following weekend and later in the year and still find it funny. We all need FUN at the moment. It was Keith Wilson that having examined every part of the Locomotive pointed out "That very little of the original locomotive remains. All the motion except a few as they are stamped. The frames. With many patches to strengthen over the years. Several Boiler swaps and of course the tender!" As a rival Railway Purchase the Locomotive it is possible the Swindon Boys got rid of a non standard tender. Painted in 1930s green to Boot. David and Lily. |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Oct 16, 2020 2:22:48 GMT
How wrong is the tender? To my untrained eye, the one its got now looks very like the ones shown on page 90 of Holcroft's 'An Outline of GW Locomotive Practice 1837-1947', attached to No.98, Churchward's prototype 4-6-0, and on page 92, attached to a 4-4-0 'County. Is it known for certain what it had when still in GWR service?
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Post by delaplume on Oct 16, 2020 11:30:52 GMT
Hi Alan, I don't know how many times you have mentioned the Steam Railway magazine spoof, but it has been quite a lot. And perhaps we don't need to hear it all again. From what I understand, and is more pertinent to Adam's work is that City of Truro since whenever - probably since when it went to York Museum in the 1930's has a peculiar hybrid tender that doesn't match any of the GWR tender diagrams. Cheers, Julian Hi Julian, and thanks for your contribution......we don't see much of you these days......is all ok ?? The thread title just says "City of Truro 3440" so I'm guided by that.......... Mention of a hybrid tender reminds me that you once told us you changed the dimentions when building that tender in your avatar....but you and I both know what a minefield GWR Tenders can be for the unwary, eh ?? OK, point taken about repeat mentioning of "The Spoof."....although I think it has only been a couple of times down the recent years ??.. ( Just a thought but if you don't know how many times then how can you make a definative statement such as}-- "It has been quite a lot" ?? ) I'm now putting my hatchet in the ground---hope you can do the same ?? Best regards Alan |
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Post by Cro on Oct 16, 2020 20:34:11 GMT
Gents, I have no problem with semi on topic chit chat now and then and Alan as the ‘City’ is new to me and I know as much about GWR as you can write on a postage stamp so I enjoyed that little story but all I ask is all hand bags are left at the door.
More on topic I was sent a bunch of detailed photos of CoT recently by a good friend which has highlighted some details around this very odd tender which again don’t match parts of the Polly kit so a bit more fabrication required to make things right.
Adam
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Post by delaplume on Oct 16, 2020 21:10:27 GMT
Hi Adam....
yes---ok, but I like Julian too much to be upset by any transient comment.....besides, it's only a hobby.........................isn't it ?? ( wink )
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,990
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Post by JonL on Oct 16, 2020 21:12:05 GMT
I enjoyed hearing about it. I didn't enjoy the bitter whining, Julian. You used to bring a lot to this forum.
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,440
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Post by dscott on Oct 17, 2020 0:12:08 GMT
Talking of tenders and upsetting the purest s?
It has all the rivets.
In the right places.
It is painted Black.
So from a Black Five.
The builder (Not Me)
Put LNER on the sides.
I may just keep it that way.
TEASE.
David and Lily.
Well known in the Club for building something using M6 M8 and M10 bolts many with Nilock nuts!!!!
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Post by Cro on Dec 29, 2020 22:16:32 GMT
Evening all, I'm having a bit of down time in the workshop which for me means a brake from machining castings, spindles, glands, cones or anything else fittings related hence the update to this thread where I am working on the City Tender for a few days. I can't believe it was October when I was last working on it. I can't remember if I mentioned this before but this is a "secret project" intended to be for Dad's 70th birthday which gives me 7 years to finish - loads of time to some and to others not much at all, the worst thing is not being able to call Dad up every now and then or send him photo to tell him what I've been up too so I'll share it with you guys instead! Since my last update the spun domes arrived and have been split to sit either side the coal rails, the sump has had both ends silver soldered in place and then rivetted and soft soldered to the sole plate and the rest of the tank including coal space has been rivetted together, to the sole plate and this evening soft soldered together. Here are a few photos from the last couple of days.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr Riveting the angle to the sump sides, both ends held in place ready for soldering.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr Rivet in, time for some solder. I decided it was best to get this done as it is now to avoid having to try turning things when hot later on.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr Ready for cleaning up, not as messy in person as this makes it look but I only found one pin hole thankfully.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr The tank all assembled ready to meet the sole plate.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr Rivets going in, these will all be filed flush when its all water tight as the full size is flush rivetted (I think).  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr All ready to go, a few clamps here and there to hold things down. The coal space could do with some fixings holes like the rest of it to keep it down. I also had a failure on a corner of the coal space due to me folding it the wrong way first time round so I can to add the "jig plate" to space everything correctly and a piece of brass angle was soldered into the corner to hold this back together.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr One side done and the rear.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr All done, 1 hour 20 minutes later and it was done. It's now in the big tray to soak overnight so I can scrub it clean in the morning. When filling it up I couldn't help fill the tank first (despite it having holes for hand rails and mounting points) to see how the joins were and I could see 2 very small weeps so will look at those once cleaned up. To finish off here we have some of the assembled shots of the others bits to give you a feel for the finished look.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr I have just sent the CAD file off to Mike for the water gauge and I need to finish the lifting links although seeing Gary make his I feel I should have a go myself. Other details left to finish now are air vents, tool boxes, lids and hinges, filler lid and hinges, mounting the dome parts and also the tool tunnel which has been missed from the design all together. Other things that were totally wrong for this kit for a "city" tender are the injector valve boxes in the coal space and position of some of the partitions so some tweaking/fabricating also required to complete the top part of the tender. Hope you liked these and will update tomorrow when things are leak tight. Adam |
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Post by 92220 on Dec 30, 2020 9:50:59 GMT
Lovely bit of platework Adam!! You can be well proud of that!!
Bob.
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Post by delaplume on Dec 30, 2020 15:05:53 GMT
Lovely bit of platework Adam!! You can be well proud of that!! Bob. Almost seems a shame to paint it somehow......Nice one, Adam.... When the time for painting does come however, just be inspired by John's recent Stirling Single livery... |
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Post by Cro on Dec 30, 2020 16:00:52 GMT
Thanks chaps.
Good news, after having 3 small leaks to attend it is now sat on the draining board full to the brim without a drip in site! I’m pleased with that considering how much time was spent riveting and soldering it’s worked out well. Now to work on the top details ready for the next step.
Adam
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Kevan
Seasoned Member
Posts: 138 
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Post by Kevan on Dec 30, 2020 23:01:11 GMT
Talking of tenders and upsetting the purest s? It has all the rivets. In the right places. It is painted Black. So from a Black Five. The builder (Not Me) Put LNER on the sides. I may just keep it that way. TEASE. David and Lily. Well known in the Club for building something using M6 M8 and M10 bolts many with Nilock nuts!!!! David, iirc LNER got some 8f’s during the war from a utility contract so your tender may need one of those built to go in front of it😀 they are rather good looking locos. |
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Post by silverfox on Dec 30, 2020 23:24:55 GMT
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twombo
Seasoned Member
Posts: 120
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Post by twombo on Dec 31, 2020 5:13:36 GMT
It looks wonderful Adam! Your Mention of “spinnings” catches my eye! Hose spinnings, do, as well! I’ve been Contemplating those, rounded and flared rear corners of the bits of Churchward , era, tender, in my workshop! I’ve a friend with a spinning lathe and tooling. I will be looking forward to the next episode!
As Bob, noted, tHe bare metal, ihighlights the craftsmanship!
Thank you for the inspiration! Congratulations!
Mick
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Post by delaplume on Dec 31, 2020 18:02:22 GMT
Hello everyone,
Basically those rounded, flared corners are done by turning a bell shape and then cutting into quarters.....and solder into position...I think there's a detailed description and photos in Polly's Grange build blog.....
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twombo
Seasoned Member
Posts: 120
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Post by twombo on Jan 1, 2021 6:53:02 GMT
thank You, Alan! I’ve tried various searches. For’ “Polly’s and Grange! I found one. the User being “nungrange” or something similar. Either 3/4” or 1” scale.
Your points regarding and “bell” and section into Quarters i are the “key to the Kingdom”! Now I must Collect the various cross sections from the drawings and “plug” them into the cad Application! Some methods should produce a 3d for the spinning Form! In 17/32” scale this may be rather small, the rear tank corner being about 1/4” Radius , and the Flare at the Coal sides. 3/4” tall by 1/4”, being what the drawings show. I may Consider .5 mm copper or Brass to work with Luckily ,One “ bell” Covers. 4 corners. .. Less an allowance for a Lap joint at the coalsides.
Thank you for the.Thoughts, and ideas to search with. Some combination of key words and, Browsing, will reveal the Key! I must thank Adam for all his wonderful photos and words.
Seeing the thing from all perspectives, is incredible. What a tremendous Resource we have to share!
Mick
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Post by delaplume on Jan 1, 2021 13:58:15 GMT
Our pleasure, I'm sure....
Alan
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Jan 1, 2021 14:37:33 GMT
thank You, Alan! I’ve tried various searches. For’ “Polly’s and Grange! I found one. the User being “nungrange” or something similar. Either 3/4” or 1” scale. Your points regarding and “bell” and section into Quarters i are the “key to the Kingdom”! Now I must Collect the various cross sections from the drawings and “plug” them into the cad Application! Some methods should produce a 3d for the spinning Form! In 17/32” scale this may be rather small, the rear tank corner being about 1/4” Radius , and the Flare at the Coal sides. 3/4” tall by 1/4”, being what the drawings show. I may Consider .5 mm copper or Brass to work with Luckily ,One “ bell” Covers. 4 corners. .. Less an allowance for a Lap joint at the coalsides. Thank you for the.Thoughts, and ideas to search with. Some combination of key words and, Browsing, will reveal the Key! I must thank Adam for all his wonderful photos and words. Seeing the thing from all perspectives, is incredible. What a tremendous Resource we have to share! Mick You can spin common brass, but it needs a lot of annealing. ‘Gilding Metal’ is usually recommended, but it tends to have a premium price. I’ve found ‘Spinning Brass’ to cost about the same as common brass if you can find it, but it is definitely more ductile (clue is in the name!). With a decent former, and a live centre with a suitable nose, you can do it on an ordinary lathe, if the job is not too big. It has a reputation of a black art, but for simple shapes it is just a knack. You need to modify your toolpost, and make a tool with plenty of leverage and a rounded polished end. The fancy sort with ball-bearing ends are not needed unless you plan to do a lot. Best thing is to watch the process to get the idea- there are plenty of YouTube videos. Remember that Spinning is essentially a stretching process, so don’t start with excessive spare metal in your ‘blank’. If spinning (say) a cylinder cleading, 2” dia and ¼” deep, you can start with a little less than a 2½” blank if it is accurately centred, and it will be easier work. Don’t expect the turned-over flange to shrink to fit, it won’t, as a beginner you’ll just get bumps. You will get a significant reduction in thickness, which could be an issue when matching it to the tender sides. Expect to throw away the first couple of blanks you try, but you’ll soon get the idea. HTH Gary |
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Post by Cro on Jan 1, 2021 19:37:36 GMT
Hey all, Mick, I'm glad this is helping someone. Here is a photo of the flared corners which I am yet to solder, I am waiting till I have formed all the beading to help hold it all in place for soldering. It's not a great fit, the kit has turned trumpet shape which doesn't actually match the radius they have bent the sides too so it will take some dressing once fitted to suit.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr As I said the tank is now sealed and its time to sort out some of the details for the top of the coal space to make sure I don't have too many extra holes to add before I solder the top down.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr So the first of the details is the tool boxes, CoT has two different types and the kit had one type supplied with finished hinges the other without so yesterday was spent making these. I forgot to take photos as I went though - concentrating too much.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr First up was the latch for one tool box, also hinged and this was my method for each hinge. The flat plates were supplied with rivet holes already in place. Brass rod turned down to .055" and drilled 0.8mm to suit some watch strap pins I have. Parted off full width of the flat strip for each half of the hinge. These were then rested on the fire bricks, fluxed and gently warmed up, adjusted slightly as they are so light they like to move around but any weights or place holders suck the heat away too much. I then had small bits of silver solder pre cut ready to be dropped into the joint with the flame they quickly flashed into place. Last job was to file the slot or tabs to fit each pair.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr The tanks were folded easily and I silver soldered these together, the lid as rolled in slip rolls and then it was time to rivet things together. 1/32" rivets supplied for holes1mm dia....try riveting those over and it all goes a bit wonky so in the end they are all soft soldered in place and cleaned up after.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr The last job was to file the head off a rivet and bend it round for the catch and soft solder it in. Here we have both boxes done, rather pleased with these as I normal mess these things up rushing them.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr So that was yesterday, today was to fabricate the firing iron tunnel area, first up was some research as not many people take photos of this area. This is the main photo I have to work off.  thumbnail_DSCN5841 by Adam Cro, on Flickr I started off with the cut out in the baffle, proportions might not be correct but it looks close enough. Once I had that sorted I could fold up the side and end panels and rivet/solder bits together.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr Tomorrow I'll fit it to the baffle and make a floor for it before fitting the tool boxes in their final places. Last thing today was to modify the chassis to take the tank with sump, soon I'll take it up to the office and put it back behind the chassis for a nice photo.  Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr More progress to come soon, really enjoying doing something different and these western things aren't too bad either! Happy New Year all! Adam |
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twombo
Seasoned Member
Posts: 120
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Post by twombo on Jan 2, 2021 4:33:56 GMT
Hank You Adam and Gary!
I am “Gobsmacked” at the quality of the work, AND, To get a “Tin worm’s” eye, view of the structure. I took a quick read back thru the series. This is great stuff!! Thanks to Both ALL, OF YOU For he exchange of ideas and techniques!
What Apprentice could ask for more!
Cheers to all, in this new Year!
Mick
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