Winson 5" 9F Rebuild

[tarnish1]

Hi all,
Been watching/reading these forums for years and gained lots of knowledge from members and associated posts.
I have just purchased a Winson 9F from Station Road steam. It has finally arrived after about 5 months in transit to Western Australia.
The loco has been fired but I don't feel its been run. The blasting arrangement alone would probably have stopped that.
Anyway the first question that I ask ( first of many I would suggest, is does any one have a picture of the ashpan door sliding mechanism and associated linkages?
this one has the two panels and the adjoining links but there seems to be no obvious means of operating them. I do have the assembly drawings but these show no reference to the area concerned
The Boiler number is 0007 dated 6 feb 2000.

Thanks in advance for any help, its much appreciated.

Phil

[tarnish1]

Just a few images before I started removing parts.

[dscott]

Hi and welcome to the forum Phil.
The big thing wrong with these kits seems to be the Cylinders with the passages being too small.
Remember that after a rework they do go superbly. A Winston Britannia won IMLEC this year.
We were there and watched in wonder.

David and Lily Reading England.

[borderer]

Phil,

It is not entirely clear which parts you are referring to. It sounds from your description like the operating linkage for the firedoors rather than some part of the ashpan. If you can clarify that, I am sure that somebody will be able to help.

[92220]

Hi Phil.

Welcome to the forum. As 'borderer' says above, from your description, it does sound as if you are referring to the firebox sliding door mechanism. I can't help you with details of a Winson firedoor, but if you look towards the bottom of page 16 of my thread      5" g Evening Star to works drawings     you will see a full description, and photos, of the 'true-to-scale' version of the fullsize fire doors and sliding mechanism. I haven't done it yet, but the actual ashpan doors don't have a sliding mechanism....only the firedoors. The ashpan doors are on the bottom of the firebox and are operated by levers only. That's why we think you are referring to the firedoor mechanism, in the cab.

Bob.

[cplmickey]

Must admit I read it as the ash dump doors at the bottom of the ashpan and on checking the assembly drawings I can see no details either. Unfortunately because my build stalled with the cylinder problem mentioned above I still haven't progressed this far although the ashpan itself is built ready to go. Ian

[tarnish1]

Hi guys, thanks for the input and replies.
The area I’m referring to is the ash dump doors in the very bottom of the ash pan, I can’t see any details anywhere of a operating mechanism to open/close these doors.
The cylinders I’m going to edm larger steam passages as soon as I get them removed.
This loco has a double chimney already fitted but the blast nozzle setup will have to be remodelled.

[tarnish1]

As a further description, the ash pan has a sliding door on the bottom of each portion of the ashpan they slide forward add and rearward to open and close the bottom to allow the ash to fall through. The two doors are linked so that they operate together.
Once I get the loco on the rotating stand I’ll post a few pictures for clarification.

[92220]

Hi Phil.

Would details of the fullsize ashpan door operating gear help? If so, PM me your email address and I will send you a scan.

Bob.

[tarnish1]

Thanks Bob,
Will do, that would be helpful thanks, much appreciated.
I was checking out your build, to say exceptional would be an understatement!

Phil

[tarnish1]

PM sent Bob!


Phil

[tarnish1]

Id like to thank Bob for the images he sent, very much appreciated indeed.

A few more picture with the Boiler removed and the chassis mounted on the rotating stand.

Things to note at this stage are :
The springs are as supplied by Winson and as such offer little movement
The steam passages in the cylinder may have been enlarged slightly but I will EDM those out to a reasonable volume.
The water pump has been re orientated vertically to allow better operation
Double chimney has been fitted, however the blast nozzles and blower system needs replacing.
The loco seems to have been fired but I cant see much evidence of any wear or grime etc so it may not have seen any amount of track work.
The ashpan once I got it out and had a look is a bit substandard and my require replacing.

Phil

[tarnish1]

It also looks like the PO tried fitting automatic drain cocks!

Sorry about the oversize images, still working it out.

Phil

[oldnorton]

Hi Phil

Good photos, well done posting those. It looks quite neatly finished. It may be that the PO (useful abbreviation) has already addressed some of the Winson build weak points. You are doing a good job dismantling to see what is what, so some of us with a bit of Winson/Modelworks history could chip in with things for you to look for.

1. The grate and ashpan are poor on all of them and you just need to step back and do a redesign. The big issue is how do you want to dispose of the fire at the end of a run.

2. The springing is always bad. Looks like you have mostly tufnol with a couple of steel leaves and these can work, but can also just bind solid after collapsing. Everything will run on a track but adhesion will be all over the place. Take one off to measure its actual spring rate. Consider making a set of properly tempered steel springs to fix it properly, and the bogie and pony truck springs will need redoing to get them to be compatible with the main spring rates.

3. I see you have a piston out, what are the rings? Main piston and piston valve rings/bobbins were a major weakness, also the valve sleeves sealing in the cylinder blocks. While it is apart you must confirm that the valve sleeves are sealing, and only then look at rings and bobbins.

There has been stuff written on the above on this forum and on private blogs. Try Google searches for 'Britannia' as well as '9F', but ask us as you work along if you want.

Norm

[tarnish1]

Hi Norm thanks for the advice,
I haven’t got a piston out yet but shouldn’t be far away.
It will be interesting to see what the piston/valve stup ist like, bit of a Pandora’s box really.

Phil

[dscott]

Looks like a Cylinder hone could be a start and introduce some cross hatching with it. Poly do them.
Looking for a smooth but gritty finish to hold oil but not to wear out the rings.
A friend has one which sort of steamed years ago but have not seen her recently.
Thanks for posting Phil.

Love the Lathe in the Background he says having a weakness for such machines.

David and Lily.

[tarnish1]

Hi David and Lily,
Thanks for the comments/advice, as soon as I get the piston out and have done the required port work a good honing is definitely in order.

Phil

[tarnish1]

The lathe is a recent addition to the workshop.
I had previousely converted a small lathe to cnc and made an eight station turret but the Cyclematic is in another league and so smooth.

Phil

[fubar123]

Hi Phil, when you get the oversized images sussed ,Please let me know how !
Handy looking lathe in the back ground !
Chris

[tarnish1]

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