Winson 5" 9F Rebuild

[don9f]

Hi “lostinclagg”, I still read various threads with interest, but haven’t posted much at all for a couple of years. I am particularly fond of the 9Fs and had a thread about my own Warnett example, back in around 2017....see Overhaul of a 9F

I would be very interested to follow your progress and offer any help I can. I have been closely involved with the engineering of a couple of the real ones that survive in preservation.

Cheers   Don

[cplmickey]

Jan 25, 2024 23:31:42 GMT lostinclagg said:

Hello,

well, it seems I am the next recruit to the band of 9F fixers, having picked mine up this week.

It is an unfinished, and therefore unsteamed, and whilst I know from the paperwork that the PO received all the kits, I do not have everything.

What I have was retrieved from a house with many scattered projects; I hope someone may find some additional bits, but I'm not holding out much hope, and likely I will have to fill in the gaps...

This series of posts has been amazing useful already, helping to identify parts I have, and many I do not, mainly detailing items. Good to see some brilliant upgrades too.

Are contributors still following this thread, or I am best to start a new one to pitch my own queries ?

Thanks to all.

Hi Lostinclagg, welcome to the forum. I have a well advanced 9F that got put aside when I couldn't get it to run properly on air. Since then I have opened up the steam passages in the cylinders (and made sure they align with the valve sleeve which at least one of the original holes did not) and have decided that this year I need to get them back on and hopefully end up with a running chassis. I'm happy to help with any questions although I know almost nothing about valve gear so others will be best placed to advise on that. Ian

[lostinclagg]

Hello Don,

Thank you for pointing me at your thread. I have had an enjoyable read through it all, impressive as a build, and impressive as an overhaul.

The example I have purchased part built is a 20+ year old Winson kit, and that has it's limitations which I realise, and am happy with.  I wanted to build the Warnett one when it came out, but (certainly at that time) my skill set as a non engineer was not there, but then I took on other challenges instead .

That said, I shall tidy up the kit of parts I have to make it as presentable as possible, and try to figure out how to make the parts I don't have. 

I am starting with the tender, which although loosely assembled is a long way from being in an acceptable state.

Thanks for your offer of help, which I may well call on down the line.

Cheers,  Rob

[lostinclagg]

Thanks Ian, (cplmickey), good to hear from you.

Is yours a Winson too ?

Yes, I have seen references to opening up the ports, but only having picked it up this week, am still checking what I have and what is missing.
Ports are something I will certainly look at; easier to do that now than after it has been on a track.

Good to know you are motivated to get on with yours too

Cheers, Rob

[cplmickey]

Jan 27, 2024 23:33:22 GMT lostinclagg said:

Thanks Ian, (cplmickey), good to hear from you.

Is yours a Winson too ?

Yes, I have seen references to opening up the ports, but only having picked it up this week, am still checking what I have and what is missing.
Ports are something I will certainly look at; easier to do that now than after it has been on a track.

Good to know you are motivated to get on with yours too

Cheers, Rob

Yes mine's a Winson bought when the company still existed (1999 I think). After getting disillusioned it ended up in the loft and I tackled a couple of other locos. When I moved house I was prompted to strip it down and take a look. In my local club we had 3 9Fs and 3 Brits all with the same issue so the workshop superintendent at the time made a tool for the spark eroder and some of us opened out our ports using that. I then had a discussion with John Baguley (Baggo on here) and he gave me info to make ptfe valves which I have since done. The left cylinder is now back together and the right cylinder just needs the valve spindle and bobbin inserting and they can go back on the chassis. You might find this page interesting. modeleng.proboards.com/thread/13137/winson-9f-cylinder-modifications Ian

[lostinclagg]

Jan 28, 2024 9:26:04 GMT cplmickey said:

Jan 27, 2024 23:33:22 GMT lostinclagg said:

Re : Is yours a Winson too ?

Yes mine's a Winson bought when the company still existed (1999 I think). After getting disillusioned it ended up in the loft and I tackled a couple of other locos. When I moved house I was prompted to strip it down and take a look.
The left cylinder is now back together and the right cylinder just needs the valve spindle and bobbin inserting and they can go back on the chassis. You might find this page interesting. modeleng.proboards.com/thread/13137/winson-9f-cylinder-modifications Ian

Hi Ian, well that's a long time waiting to be completed, although I can understand the annoyance / disillusionment of the time. I have hit related brick walls in the past. I hope you are motivated to proceed this year.

Thanks, yes, I have spotted that page, and will be looking at it in earnest. For now I'm just playing with the tender.

Cheers, Rob

[tarnish1]

Hi all,
I apologize for my lack of presence here, however I am still progressing with the rebuild albeit steadily.
Ill post some pictures to illustrate progress thus far and will try to be more regular with updates in the future.
good to see a few others are having a go at the winsons, while they do need work its a good start I beleive. and the the help I have received from people on this forum has been priceless.

Cheers
Phil







IMG_3173 by Philip Hartley, on Flickr

[lostinclagg]

Hello to followers of this topic.

Well, it is very nearly 3 months since I picked up MY Winson 9F, a collection of gently rusting parts, an assembled but incomplete chassis, a boiler and a loosely assembled tender.

There was a lot missing, but an additional box of pipework and the cladding turned up later, so plenty enough to be going on with.

The P.O. bought it new, and made a good start, but clearly there were some issues with fits etc. (I have so many duplicate driving axles - but don't know why), and he started to make changes to the valve gear, producing some ill-fitting cut and shut parts, and I think abandoned it at that point.

So, being somewhat over confident that a 'loco by numbers' should be achievable in a shorter space of time than the many other builds I have not quite finished, I commenced.

My goal is to try and tidy it up, and get a reasonably good runner in as short a time as possible, but keeping it in the spirit of the original. I have no intention of making this into a super detail model, as I have other projects that need that attention.

Starting with the tender, which I seemed to have most parts for; it has had a nut and bolt rebuild; been spray painted and reassembled. No horrors in the chassis, though the springs were solid, so I have treated myself to cast springs, which will have coil springs internally in a vertical pocket. Where possible I have fitted one size smaller head hexagon bolts throughout (aren't they getting expensive), most of the originals had moderate rust on them anyway.

I have treated the body to brass countersunk heads fitted where possible, (how could they sell it with steel hexagon bolts ?) and the body has been soft soldered around the joints. I had slightly more issues with the pre-formed coal hopper, and I'm still not happy with the top, as it doesn't run in a straight line after the split. Waiting for enthusiasm to correct it.

Moving to the loco, the pony wheels never showed up so I bought a pair from Blackgates, as yet untouched. The P.O. had assembled the pony truck, but the boxes were jammed in. I found the holes in the base plate needed to be moved about 1/16 inch, and the boxes trimmed slightly, and now the axle boxes move freely.

The loco chassis has been stripped, and cleaned. I want to keep an axle pump, but was unhappy with the angularity of the short drive arm, so I hope to fit a new pump of smaller bore, which will be moved forward by an axle length, and be at axle level. So that has required a new pump stretcher, and a replacement for the original high level pump stretcher that keeps the lifting arms apart.

I decided that the pretend hand-lever to operate the brakes had to go, so a new stretcher has been fitted at the back to hold a single steam brake cylinder. This will be used merely as a parking brake, and I still have to make replacement brake arms to fit the existing bearings.

I have also fitted horizontal stretchers '1' and '4' from Blackgates castings, (2 and 3 may clash with the axle pump drive), really to help keep it all straight; and a pair of external frame strengtheners, from M.E.L. These were not too much work to adapt from the Warnett spec, but are attached with another extra 24 odd tapped holes for each. As before, with the exception of the horns and suspension bolts which are largely hidden by the wheels, all bolts have been refitted using new ones with a reduced sized head.

The P.O. had made a front buffer beam from angle, which I have retained, although it required a little work, and I have been able to use that to locate some bespoke front steps (again via M.E.L.) that hide the front buffer retaining nuts and plungers.

I found that the centre driving horns were misaligned, although all the others seemed to be fairly true. So, one driving horn was adjusted to make it come true, and locked up tight. I will pick up any fallout on the coupling rods later.

One loco frame was clamped to a thick straight bar while reassembling all the stretchers, I did this as there was a slight banana shame to the frames, and as of yesterday the chassis is back together, painted dark outside, and red inside (but still needs the inside bolt ends/ nuts colouring).

I have still to face the horror show of the cylinders, which at least appear not to be seized, and need to fathom out the motion in due course.

I think next it is cleaning and painting the wheels, and sorting the half-hearted coupling rods to ensure smooth running.

As no doubt described by many others over the years, this loco could have been so much better with just a little more care in the design, CAD only works well when you get it right !

I also find it unforgivable to sell this kit as 'Evening Star' with a fake aluminium double chimney with a single hole ! So, I’ll be fitting my loco with a single chimney and giving it a different family name, and it won’t be painted green.

My thanks to Tony who has given me some pointers over the last few months off-line. With a change of season, I won't be able to sustain the same pace, but intend to keep moving it forward.

Cheers,  Rob

[Neale]

The tender has "been pray painted." A typo with more than a little truth in it?

[lostinclagg]

To the occasional readers of these posts, an addendum to my last post.

In days long gone by, there was a Modelworks /Winson website, and also ‘official’ organised meetups to swap notes, and see how others built theirs, and I guess to run them. But that seems like 20 years ago.

Do you think there is an appetite for such a gathering these days, there are a lot of locos out there, many possibly still unfinished like mine. There is also a chap in my local club with a Winson 1400 class currently in pieces.

I know these things can be slightly defeated by geography, but I would be happy to meet in the South West, say Bristol area.

Any thoughts ? Cheers, Rob

[tarnish1]

Been making the dome over the last couple of days, just a few pics of progress:

[tarnish1]

Also been busy making rotary stands:

[tony9f]

Hello Phil,

Nice to see you back on the thread. Your loco is really coming on, I like the dome. Did you CNC machine it?

The new stand also looks really swish, I take it the two elevating actuators are linked electrically.

I have been making my own progress and have some more recent pictures if you're interested.

Regards

Tony

[tarnish1]

Hi Tony,
nice to hear from you, and good to see other people are putting their experiences on here.
I would love to see your progress your work is always first rate and good to see.
The stands were something I have been intending to do for a while now and certainly make life easier.
At the moment I'm working my way through the cladding and plumbing stage.
The dome was cnc machined on my mill conversion after 3d printing the model first to make any adjustments required before final machining.

Cheers
Phil.

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

I have been making progress on the loco albeit a bit on the slow side, mainly focusing on the boiler backhead and cab. Progress has sort of been slowed by the need to rebuild a couple of my machine tools.
I will send you some pictures in the next few days which you might find interesting.

Take care

Tony

[tarnish1]

Hi Tony,
Look forward to seeing your work
Just doing the backhead myself so yours will be a good reference.
Cheers
Phil