Winson 5" 9F Rebuild

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

That looks like a good solution to an awkward problem. That ashpan assembly would have caused me a lot of headaches.
I'll send you some pictures of my ashpan and suspension arrangments.

Cheers

Tony

[tarnish1]

Machining the required apertures in the Smoke box, then the rivet holes.






Phil

[tarnish1]

Cheers Tony,
I look forward to seeing more details of your fantastic looking loco, you really are doing a great job!

Phil

[tarnish1]

fitting smoke box!



Phil.

[tarnish1]

Changed the steam delivery tube to 1/2" (original was 3/8" on the right for comparison)
needed to be done to suit the poppet valve regulator I'm making .



Phil

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

Completely agree with you on increasing the steam pipe size, the Winson one might be 3/8" in diameter but is so thick walled as to be useless. Looks like it's going well.

Cheers

Tony

[tarnish1]

I removed the valve liners today. As expected the ports need some work.
I used a woodruff cutter to provide some room to allow the altered steam ports room to penetrate (Thanks John Baguley for that idea)
As a note: the woodruff cuts are the position of the annular port groove in the liner!
As for the fitting oft the liners , Im considering coating the liner and cylinder contact areas with solder paste on assembly and the when all in position sweating them together. (comments on that one?)
The PO had an interesting approach to prevent leakage of the liners, he pressed in 10mm thin walled brass tube through the exhaust passages to seal them through the cylinder liner joint. I may refit the brass tubing liners on reassembly.


Liners after removal


Showing the original round ports


Showing the misaligned drill holes for the steam ports.


setting up the EDM jig to cut the larger ports at the correct angle.

[tarnish1]

A few picture showing the EDM cutting of the steam ports.










Phil

[Cro]

Phil - I'd be very careful fitting and sealing in the bolt/studs next to that new port as looks like its broken through on at least one side.

With regards to solder - I would avoid this, loctite (can't remember the number) or similar will do with a close fit of liner/bore, all I did on my winson 9f and no problems at all.

I did square off all the ports with needle file, looks like you might have other kit available for this sort of thing.

Adam

[tarnish1]

Hi Adam,
Thanks for the input.
I Knew that the threads may just break through but I think that if I install the adjacent bolts using sealant it should be fine. It’s hard finding the balance of width, and staying within limits. In this case the spark gap was a little bigger than I calculated

Phil

[tarnish1]

Did you fit the o rings on the valve liners that many have done Adam?

Phil

[Cro]

Hi Phil,

Initially yes - Whilst I was at Uni and not having access to work on the loco/having not done liners before I sent it off to be worked on with intention of single piece liner (as I had been advised) and to have it all sealed with O-rings. Long story short I ended up with tapered ID's of around 5-10thou, bobbins that would only go in one way to account for the bigger front than back, O-rings on the liners but when pressed into place the walls collapsed pressing against the oring stopping them from sealing or having locking grub screws pressing against the o-ring and finally cracked cylinder blocks due to the force used to press the liners in (including some sort of loctite for good measure). With a bit of persuasion they were removed and I then learnt how to make new ones properly and these were simply machined to be a nice slide in fit, grooves around for steam flow and squared off ports as big as we could get in and then pushed in with loctite. I ran it for a year like that with plain bronze bobbins in and had no issues.

If I could I would probably change to CI and fit CI rings or Clupets to the bobbins.

Adam

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

When I was looking at opening up the cylinder ports on mine, I did think about EDM after seeing that some one else had done it but after some consideration felt that there was less chance of anything untoward happening if drilled an extra port and opened out the existing ones. As it turns out, doing it that way left substantial material around the stud holes.
I also machined the out grooves in the valve liners to span the ports in the chest wall and allow more room for steam flow. This was also necessary to accommodate for the addition of a spacer ring between the liners. Like Adam, I have secured my liners with a high strength Loctite (648 I think) retainer which seems to have sealed them as well but if they give me problems in service I will likely make up solid ones which fit better in the bores and fit o rings for good measure.

Cheers

Tony

[tarnish1]

The PO had an interesting approach, once the liners were in place he reamed the exhaust passage out then pushed in 10m thin walled brass tubing to seal the passages.
Tony:
I certainly considered your approach and almost went that way, but because I have access to the EDM in became the easiest option.
Adam:did the ring thing on my class 4 and then used solid stainless bobbins in the bronze liners and it worked fine.
Having said that I may change piston and rings to cast iron piston and Ali bronze rings on the 9f.
Nice to get your opinions and experience, thank you.

Phil

[92220]

Feb 3, 2022 10:10:38 GMT Cro said:

Phil - I'd be very careful fitting and sealing in the bolt/studs next to that new port as looks like its broken through on at least one side.

With regards to solder - I would avoid this, loctite (can't remember the number) or similar will do with a close fit of liner/bore, all I did on my winson 9f and no problems at all.

I did square off all the ports with needle file, looks like you might have other kit available for this sort of thing.

Adam

Hi Phil.

Loctite 272 High Strength High Temp, has max service temp of 232C. That is what I have used for fitting my cylinder liners.

Bob.

[cplmickey]

I used Loctite 290 - recommended to me by John Baggley if I remember correctly. Ian

[tarnish1]

Thanks for the suggestions.
I will probably look at using Loctite 620 High Temp retaining compound, has good gap filling ability too. I thought about the 290 and it probably good with an O ring setup but I am fitting the liners straight in and the greater gap filling ability would be beneficial I think.
Besides we have some at work!

Phil

[tarnish1]

what has everyone done with their valve crosshead mount? reshaped it at all or just left it as per Winson?

Phil

[tarnish1]

Latest update!
finished reworking the valve guide bracket.
Honed the cylinders, there was a lot of pitting.






checked out the valve boobins. They were a bit rusty but the workmanship looks ok. Im not a huge fan of teflon valve bobbins but these have the o ring beneath the teflon and have overlapping teflon rings so Ill most likely keep the design.







Phil

[tony9f]

Nice treatment of the valve crosshead brackets Phil, they look really good.

Tony