Winson 5" 9F Rebuild

[tarnish1]

The superheater elements after Tig welding.



Phil

[tarnish1]

Superheater exposure in firebox.





superheater/header joints




Phil

[tarnish1]

Chassis now under work. just a few pics showing progress.


I like to use a magnetic table to hold the frames square and allow accurate fitting of the stretchers ( before fitting the axlebox that is!)


Horizontal stretcher lay out showing relief cut aways for the axle pump .


Warnett type buffer beam added.




Rear inner and outer doublers fitted!




Hornblock/ spring keeper plates, these ones are now steel and are more close to the Warnett type.


Another shot showing the horizontal stretchers and rear end.

Horizontal stretchers added with modification to allow for the axle pump and eccentric.



Axle pump resized to 1/2"












Phil

[tarnish1]

The chassis back on the rotisserie bolted up.

[dscott]

Looking superb Phil.
Love your New bufferbeam.
We got to travel behind a 9F at Maidstone last year at IMLEC.
I got to chat with Martin Evans and later took his photo driving a very nice model.
Both photos now in Model Engineer. The one with Rogers injector on the front cover.

David and Lily.

[tarnish1]

Cheers Dave, always nice to have good feedback.

A couple more of the Buffer Beam, I had to bore and sleeve the stocks in order to reduce the slop to allow the use of the slot and pin retaining method.








Phil

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

Progressing nicely there, frames look really good. I know what you mean about the buffers, I had to do the same with mine as the fit was like the proverbial sausage in a shirtsleeve.

Tony

[tarnish1]

Hi Tony,
Yeah it’s all painted and fitted now. Starting on the wheels and crank pins tomorrow, then on to spring setup ala Tony!

Phil

[92220]

Hi Phil.

It's looking good. I notice the frames don't have the strengthening piece around and behind the rear wheels. When it is there, it is fairly obvious. Because the frames are relatively narrow, top to bottom just there, B.R. designed in a strengthening plate inside and outside the frame plates. If you would like details, I have the B.R.drawing. You may be able to fit it with the frames fully assembled, I'm not sure. but you are welcome to the necessary info if you would like to check it out. If so, PM me your email address.

Bob.

[tarnish1]

Hi Bob, thanks for the input, I fitted the frame doublers (inner and outer already, are they the ones you refer to?

imgur.com/MZ5qGzJ


Phil

[tarnish1]

A few more later frame pics, I realize the colour scheme is not totally correct.










Phil

[92220]

Hi Phil.

Yes. Those are the ones. I couldn't see the outside ones on the frames. I can now see them on your latest post.

Bob.

[92220]

Hi Phil.

You were saying you have done the wrong colour scheme. If you are going to finish the loco as Evening Star, the NRM gave me full access to everywhere and allowed me to research the paint coats, right down to bare metal, as long as it was in places not normally visible to the public. The basic problem was that the loco was painted in a colour scheme specially created for it as it was the last steam loco to be built. I did originally paint my frames in the wrong scheme, but it is now exactly as fullsize. If you want to reproduce the Evening Star colour scheme, these photos are of my loco and are now correct.












Bob.

Edit: Note how the paint scheme is for the stretcher flanges where they are fixed to the frames. The area below the horizontal stretchers is all Black. The frames are only Red where you can see them on the photos. The red on the inside frame faces, stopped at the rear of the last vertical stretcher (photo 1), and from there back, the frames are Black. The rear face of the saddle is Red, and everything forward of this is Black. Hope that all helps.

What looks like Red inside the front of the saddle, in the photo just above, is where it was originally Red and I couldn't get the Black spray to get in there fully. Those surfaces will not be visible once the plating is fitted anyway.

Bob.

[tarnish1]

Thanks Bob,
I did in fact take note of your photos when painting the frames and used them as a guide. The Winson chassis has a few stretchers missing and it makes it hard to follow your very authentic scheme. It’s awlways a little hard to decide how far to go with mods etc over the original design and when to draw the line.
Having said that I have nothing but admiration for artists like yourself take things too the next level.
By the way is the paint scheme gloss or satin, I have seen some pictures with gloss black wheels and others where the wheels look Matt?

Phil

[tarnish1]

Hi,
Just a few pictures of the continuing saga, The spring mounts are based on Tonys design and work well.
The wheels are castings from blackgates for the warnet version.
The axle box spring mounts I changed to studs, I wasnt fussed on a thread going into the axle box with no locknut allowing it to work in the threads.



The spring bobbins




in situ on the chassis



Overall view


Front Rods and trial cylinder fit


General view of the side


Main Driving wheel



Cheers
Phil

[92220]

Hi Phil.

You ask about gloss level. I'm not sure if you mean fullsize or models. If you are asking about fullsize, it was always gloss paint that was used on locos and passenger stock, as it was easier to keep clean. For models the finish all depends on scale. The smaller the scale, the less gloss is needed. If you think about a Rolls Royce straight out of the showroom, up close it is highly gloss. Take that same car away to a distance of around 100 meters and it has lost a lot of it's perceived gloss. Take it to a quarter of a mile away and you would see little or no gloss.

Our 5" G locos, ideally, need a gloss level of 85 to 90% of full gloss. With a model of the 9f, if painting as any of the black black locos, it would probably look better with a 75 to 80% gloss level. If painting as Evening Star, then the 85 to 90% gloss will look more natural. Hope that helps. The variatyion in gloss level can be obtained by adding dull colour to gloss....not the other way around. More dull paint is needed to change the gloss level of a gloss paint, than if you add gloss paint to a tin of dull paint. It just makes the obtaining of the finish you want, easier, and you end up with less total amount of paint.....so not so much wastage. Hope that helps.

Bob.

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

You have made an excellent job of your suspension arrangements, in fact it looks better than mine and looks like you have done it without modifying the hanger brackets. This setup will probably have some faults but I feel is a good compromise and should achieve decent springing without going to the extent of following prototype. Did you find it fiddly to assemble?
Anyway, your progress is looking good and I will be doing the same as you with the studding into the bottom of the axleboxes.

Tony

[tarnish1]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the input regarding gloss paints and scale effect, it all makes perfect sense.

Hi Tony,
When I saw your suspension setup I decided that it was a great option to explore. The Bobbins had to be made exactly the right length to permit installation. However once the technique was worked out it didnt take much effort at all. Thanks for the idea.

Phil

[tarnish1]

Managed to damage myself a bit last week so didn't get much done, decided to tackle the grate.
Retained the original design but moved the position of the retention lugs since they didn't work or fit where the instructions say to fit them.
The centre grate now tilts up with the removal of one pin and the whole grate can be removed if the remaining pins are withdrawn.


Grate as positioned for general use.


one pin removed and the centre grate dropped.


Phil

[tarnish1]

Hi all,
Just a quick question to those who may be familiar with the WINSON 9F. How did they originally come regarding shims between the cylinders, slidebar brackets and the motion brackets?Mine came with 2mm thick shims between all of the above and the frame. I'm thinking it may be something to do with clearance of the leading wheels and coupling rod pins.
As it happens I have got the 2mm shim behind the cylinder, and same shim behind the motion brackets to get things to line up correctly, the slidebar brackets needed no shims. Has anyone had a similar experience? I should mention that the slidebar and motion brackets are MEL for the Warnet drawings.

Tony, you left hand lifting arms look like a nice piece of work indeed, are they milled from solid or fabricated?
I also noted that it looks like you have reconfigured the bush arrangement on the motion bracket worm shaft to allow a little more movement, did you find the original did not have enough travel?

Cheers
Phil