Winson 5" 9F Rebuild

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

Haven't been very active on here lately but still following your progress with interest. The union link definitely needs to longer to compensate for the elongated cylinder position, the combination levers look nice, I had to remake mine, the Winson ones wouldn't have cleaned up sufficiently in any case.
I had an assortment of eccentric rods, return cranks and valve bobbins which some of which were marked don't use. I didn't.
All my 'calculations' were based around the position of the valve gear at mid stroke which on Walschaert gear shows the combination rod centres being perpendicular to the valve spindle and piston rod at mid gear where the cylinder and valve chest are parallel to each other. I set my return cranks at 93 degrees to compensate for the inclined cylinders, the 3 degrees being half the 6 degree incline. Anyway it seems to work alright.
Exceptional work on the Clupet rings by the way, it looks pretty tricky. I'm hoping my chainsaw piston rings are up to the job as I don't fancy trying to make my own Clupet rings.

Cheers Tony

[stevep]

I used Honda 50 piston rings for my Stanier. They are intended for use at many thousands of revs per minutes, so shouldn't have any problem at the low speeds at which our engines run. I didn't have any problems at all - apart from the dreaded rust. Soaking everything in WD40 at the end of a run seemed to do the trick.

[weary]

Tony, (and others of course),

I had some Clupet rings made by Rufford Steam Works. If you don't fancy making your own they will give you a quote. I found them very good, albeit taking a couple of weeks longer than they originally quoted.

Regards,
Phil

[tarnish1]

Been busy with the lifting arms over the last couple of days reasonably pleased with the results, not as nice as those made by Tony and Robert but ok none the less.















The bolts only temprorary.

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

Lifting arms are looking good, I like the die blocks between the nut and arms and may look at doing something similar on mine as there is some backlash. Getting back into doing more on mine again after other distractions and have recently finished the drivers pedstal.

Cheers Tony

[tarnish1]

Thanks Tony, yeah bit fiddle but we’ll worth the effort and reduction in backlash.

Phil

[tarnish1]

Oct 15, 2022 10:44:02 GMT tarnish1 said:

Thanks Tony, yeah bit fiddley but well worth the effort and reduction in backlash.

Phil

[tarnish1]

Finally managed to get the lubricator situation sorted.
I ended up using the warnett type lowered in height to fit under the running board.







Now to make the clevis ends and the rod!

Phil

[tarnish1]

Moving on to the throttle body.





A couple of photos after first op on the mill.

[tarnish1]

First op in progress:

[tarnish1]

Forgot to put these up, final lubricator pics:

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

I like the lubricators; do they both lubricate the cylinders? I still haven't decided about my lubricators but am erring towards the set up that Adam Cro was suggesting.

I think I mentioned to you that I made the same regulator albeit with some alterations to suit but when testing on air found it worked well and think it will be even better on steam.

Cheers

Tony

[tarnish1]

Hi Tony,
Both lubricators are functional, one for each cylinder.
The original design was a Warnett type but I had to lower the height due to the difference in running board height.
What was Adam suggesting with the lubrication system.
I was just looking at his face book pictures of the cab on the 9F, very nice work. I have a MEL brass cab in the drawer dont know wether to redo the original cab or start a fresh using the kit.

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

I think Adams idea was to have a tank(s) between the frames and an axle driven lubricator pump setup. In some ways this seems a better arrangement inasmuch as a greater capacity of oil is possible, there is more room for multiple pumps and possibly better control of the pumping rate. Whether I go down this route or not remains to be seen but I do intend to use atomisers linked in with the drain cocks as per full size.

I agree that his cab is very good, I made mine to Doug Hewsons drawings but beware, if you use those drawings there are some typos on the dimensions which caused me to have to remake several parts particularly the roof. I would use the MEL cab, providing you make allowance for the Winson boiler I think you will get a satisfactory result.

cheers

Tony

[lostinclagg]

Hello,

well, it seems I am the next recruit to the band of 9F fixers, having picked mine up this week.

It is an unfinished, and therefore unsteamed, and whilst I know from the paperwork that the PO received all the kits, I do not have everything.

What I have was retrieved from a house with many scattered projects; I hope someone may find some additional bits, but I'm not holding out much hope, and likely I will have to fill in the gaps...

This series of posts has been amazing useful already, helping to identify parts I have, and many I do not, mainly detailing items. Good to see some brilliant upgrades too.

Are contributors still following this thread, or I am best to start a new one to pitch my own queries ?

Thanks to all.

[tony9f]

Hello Lostinclagg,

I still follow this thread although I haven't seen anything from the OP for ages, I hope he's alright.

My Winson 9F has seen a lot of modifications and I have shared much of this information with the OP via emails as I can't post pictures on this site as I don't do hosting sites and am quite happy to do the same again. I would suggest starting your own thread as it might help answer more specific questions.

I also have a lot of original parts that I will never use and these are generally complete.

Tony

[lostinclagg]

Hello Tony,

Thanks for your reply. It's nice to know someone is reading this still, albeit a long while since the last posting. I shall wait a day or two to see if there is any more response, and if not, then I'll follow your suggestion of a new thread. Is yours running now ? Thanks for mentioning you may have some parts.

The PO of my loco had started hacking the valve gear, and then left it unfinished. I don't know if that was to make it make it more like the Warnett version. Are they similar ? - I don't know yet.
Not had the covers off yet, so not sure what cylinder work is required.

May I ask one question for now please. On my tender sloping coal tray, there is a gaping hole on the right side; is that for the brake handle gear box ? I don't have the gearbox, or the front doors.

Thanks

[barlowworks]

Hi Lostinclagg (great user name by the way)

If you check out my thread “It started with a buffer” ,the first part deals with building the tender for my Britannia, very similar to your 9F one. I’m sure you will find lots of helpful information there. Also, if I can help just send me a PM.

Mike

[tony9f]

Hi Lostin,

Ah yes, the tender. You are right about the cutout for the handbrake gear. I ended up doing a lot of work on the tender as Winson got it badly wrong. The coal bunker is about an inch and a half too short and the tender as supplied is not a practical proposition as they had not thought about how to access the hand pump if needed.
Unfortunately I used the gearbox and doors on mine so don't have these.

As for the cylinders, the first thing I would check is the parallelity of the bores to the mounting face (mine were well out) and at some stage you may want to increase the steam porting from the valve chests.

If you PM me with your email I can send you pictures and details of what I've done.

Tony

[lostinclagg]

Hello again,

Thank you to Mike at Barlow works, for pointing me at your article; my goodness there is some superb engineering going on there. I have a Bulleid project which I am trying to make to look right, but I've still not gone quite to your level of detail.

I have had a good read through, and already picked up some really good pointers for the tender, so it has been really useful.


Thank you Tony (9f), and for confirming the detail that the space is for the handbrake mechanism. Hadn't spotted that in any documentation, and as that item is missing, I had no idea of its size. I will probably make the mechanism from mecanno gears, and as compact as reasonable.

I am going to work through the tender first, most of the chassis is assembled, and the body is just bolted together as supplied (with mild steel hex ?). I intend to at least countersink the 6ba fixings and use brass all around.

Given there is also no sealing between the rear of the coal hopper, and rear top of the tender - actually there is a gap; I'm toying with putting in a bulkhead so I can at least attach a piece of angle for the top plate to sit on. 
I didn't receive the supplied hand pump, so have to substitute something anyway.

I appreciate your thoughts on the cylinders, and I certainly intend to make sure they can breath ok, but I'm not going to jump in just yet.  Looks like the PO did some work on getting the axles parallel (lots of jottings), then started messing with the lengths of some valve gear items, and that's seems to be when progress stopped. I need to understand what is going on there.

Thanks for offer of some pics.