Winson 5" 9F Rebuild

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for your comments on the lifting arms. Yes they are machined from solid (both sides) to look as close to scale as possible. As for the reversing screw, I used to work at a power station and salvaged a couple of spindles from some scrap steam valves. They were a little big at 3/8" diameter but were 12TPI left hand and also came with the nuts that could be modified to fit the lifting arm. The reversing screw bearings are actually ball races with brass caps locating them on the motion bracket as per prototype. The travel of the nut wasn't an issue and the thread gives full travel from mid gear in 3 1/2 turns of the screw which corresponds perfectly with the indicator dial on the reverser gearbox.

I also had issues with the shims but I don't remember having them behind the cylinders. Anyway, after doing a lot of measuring, checking and more measuring and deciding that the Winson slide bar and motion brackets weren't going to cut it, I scrapped them. I fabricated my own slide bar brackets ( did I mention the originals weren't parallel to the piston bores?) and used the motion brackets from MEL. Going down this route meant that the cylinder centre lines and crossheads all lined up correctly and the rest of the motion was fairly straightforward as I could compensate as I went.
The clearance between the leading axle crankpins and crossheads is tight but again by thinning the crankpin caps right down and relieving the back of the crossheads a decent enough clearance is achieved. I also devised a method to stop any lateral movement of the leading axle which should prevent any contact in service.
A lot of the trouble here seems to be due to the wheels being wider than scale and the frames being narrower than scale and a distinct possibility that when the CAD drawings were done by Winsons several errors crept in, the shims then being needed to compensate, at least that's my story.

Tony

[tarnish1]

Hi Tony,
I found that without the 2mm shim behind the cylinders the slide bar mounting brackets were misaligned with the cylinder centre line(to far out board) with the shim fitted the slide bars lined up perfectly. This however requires the same thickness 2mm shim to be fitted behind the motion brackets to get the correct alignment with the valve centre line . It seems when Winson in their wisdom decided to adopt a different valve/ cylinder alignment than the Warnet ones they met have confused themselves slightly.

Phil

[tarnish1]

Hello,
Been doing the motion brackets etc over the last few days here are a few pictures. The shims mentioned before can clearly be seen (not painted yet) they look like factory items the holes having been punched not drilled.
Now on to the reversing and lifting arms!

Phil

[tony9f]

Hi Phil,

The motion work is coming on nicely. Another reason for me not using the shims which I have just remembered, was that after checking the cylinders I found that the bores were not parallel with the back faces in either axis. I remedied this by surface grinding them after shimming the cylinder blocks on the table to compensate for the misalignment. As a result, the cylinder bore centre lines came right with the frames and everything else worked out. The expansion link centre lines also coincided with the valve spindle centre lines when the brackets were fitted directly to the frames.
Having said that, I also altered a lot of the motion work to suit and made sure that any discrepancies were eliminated.

Tony

[tarnish1]

Thanks Tony,
That’s good information as usual, much appreciated.
Phil

[tarnish1]

Have been doing pipe bending this week.
The un refinished cab sides are fitted temporarily as a template.
The pipes haven't been cleaned yet!















Also been checking out he fit of the running boards and the lubricators, but that's a story for next time. but if anyone's thinking of making and fitting the Warnet type lubricators as I was, beware, and check running board height, mine was about 3mm too low!

Phil

[tarnish1]

Hi, its been a while since I have posted anything her. Not that I haven't been progressing, it just hasn't been earth moving so to speak.
I have had an attempt at making some clupet rings for the 9F. I anyone would like to have a go there is a video by the "Steam work shop" which gives a great insight into the process.



Machining the cylinder from which to cut the piston rings.



cutting the first slot with the saw stopping at the mark.



The first attempt, I managed to get the rings turned inside out but found they deformed when turning them the right way again. y initial rings were to deep in section. found that the ring section should be between 1/25 to 1/30 of the ring diameter, which worked well on the subsequent set.



The disc recess used to hold the rings while being faced off.



Ring in the plate being faced



Ring mounted on the external finishing jig ready for machining when the sleeve has been removed.



Sleeve removed ready to finish the od of the piston ring.


Phil

[steamer5]

Nice work Phil!
I’ve watched that video before, turning the rings inside out has got to heart stopping!

Cheers Kerrin

[tarnish1]

Hi Kerrin,
a major factor is getting the ring width/thickness proportions in the ball park.
In my very limited experience the ratios of 1/25 to 1/30 of ring diameter seem close. you could make the ring wider without issue but to increase the depth makes it to difficult to invert the ring.

Phil

[tarnish1]

While going over the valves and geometry I found a few areas that didn't align with Don Ashtons spread sheet.
Eccentric rods were about 6mm to long, the radius rods about 5mm too short and the valve bobbins, while correct length over all had to be changed from ). 11.684mm to 8.9mm flange legnth.
Cant see how it would have worked as per the original measurements.

Phil

[cplmickey]

Aug 7, 2022 9:16:39 GMT tarnish1 said:

While going over the valves and geometry I found a few areas that didn't align with Don Ashtons spread sheet.
Eccentric rods were about 6mm to long, the eccentric rods about 5mm too short and the valve bobbins, while correct length over all had to be changed from ). 11.684mm to 8.9mm flange legnth.
Cant see how it would have worked as per the original measurements.

Phil

From memory eccentric rods and valve bobbins were updated and sent out by Winsons at some point during the purchase period. I wonder if yours didn't have the replacements fitted. Ian

[tarnish1]

That’s quite possible Ian,
Thanks for that info.

Phil

[chris vine]

Hi Phil, I too had great fun making 8 clupet rings for Bongo’s valves. That video was fantastic!
I made the section a bit too deep which made turning them inside out totally heart stopping!!
Also, I found it tricky to face them to thickness while getting each side of the ring the same and not tapering in width. The thinner the slot the easier it is to get correct.
Fab work!!
chris

[tarnish1]

New shortened eccentric rod trial fit.



now on to the extended radius rods

Phil

[tarnish1]

Setting the valve timing:


The stickera are just an easy way to find and mark f+r dead centre





Running each side individually on air.
eventually ran on 25psi



Phil

[tarnish1]

Machining the top profile of the combination Levers.


imgur.com/ZfkZJ16

[tarnish1]

Thanks Steve,
I was trying to embed a video, with difficulty. had to put a link in eventually.

imgur.com/ZfkZJ16

Phil

[springcrocus]

Sorry, Phil, my misunderstanding.

Earlier post deleted.

Regards, Steve

[tarnish1]

That’s ok Steve I need all the help I can get in this area. You need not have removed the post it was all relevant and of interest.
Cheers
Phil

[tarnish1]

Finally managed to finish the new combination levers(still got to drill the oil holes.






Old kit supplied one in the center!

Hope to finish the longer union link and replacement lifting link tomorrow.


Phil